SPEAKER_00 0:10

Hello and welcome to Pilates Perspectives. Today, Joel Crosby is here to talk about Pilates for Olympians and what it's like to train the highest level athletes. But before we dive in, let's check in. Let's start with our usual breathing, shall we? Let's have you take a nice slow inhale and an equally slow exhale. And take a moment as you continue to breathe to notice where your body expands on the inhale and how it naturally conforms or narrows with the exhalation. Continue breathing at your own pace. And as you bring your awareness to the space you're in, the sights and the sounds around you, and to this moment, let's explore. The new year is upon us. And with that often comes a list of things we want for ourselves. But how many of us lose steam after just oh, a few days, a few weeks or months? Why can't we just will ourselves to be more disciplined? Well, today, and before we go into the new year, I invite you to reframe the concept of discipline to one of devotion. Discipline is the most literal of terms, right? It's the process of training yourself to obey a set of rules. But setting rigid do's and don'ts is not the key ingredient to forming lasting habits, is it? One cannot simply create strict guidelines and magically follow them indefinitely. I certainly know I can't. More importantly, this approach lacks a source for the motivation, an element of eagerness. It lacks a framework around and of self-worth. Now, devotion, on the other hand, devotion to yourself, to your craft, to your community, it means you're acting from a place of loyalty, a deep sense of love and of care. And when you're devoted to making decisions that support your well-being, happiness, and your prosperity, you're leading with self-respect. You're saying to yourself, I'm committed to treating myself well because I deserve to be cared for. Devotion, on the other hand, is compassion. It evolves and supports enduring routines. Think of a habit or a regimen you've been struggling to stick to. Something that you would like to do to improve your life, but feels daunting. What is underneath that? For example, if your goal is to practice Pilates four times a week, why is that? Is it to have more energy, to feel stronger, to go a layer deeper? Why is it important to you? When you access the root and incentive to your goals, you might find that it stems from a place of self-love. At the end of the day, you want what's best for your future self. So if it is to go a layer deeper, if it is important to you because it'll give you more energy, you're more likely to decide to get up on that fourth day and do your Pilates routine. At the end of the day, you want what's best for your future self. From there, it makes sense to act, right, from that place of devotion. What if you were devoting to yourself at 80? Imagine yourself at 80. What actions would you take today? Would you devote to today that would be in your best interest at 80? I invite you over the next few weeks to try on this new perspective and see and notice what shifts for you. Okay, ready? Let's take one more big cleansing breath in. And an equally as long exhalation. Awesome. Okay, thank you for taking that time today. Our guest is Joel Crosby. He is the owner of Vitality Method Studios, where he teaches classical Pilates classes and teacher training program. Joel is a graduate of the Work Masters Program with Jay Grimes. He is a certified personal trainer and internationally recognized presenter. Let's get started. Today I have Joel Crosby here, and we are going to talk specifically about how Pilates is used to train the Olympian. But actually, Joel, I'm really like very happy to expand this conversation and talk a little bit more about you and your Pilates career and what ultimately brought you to the training of the Olympian. So I'm going to ask you to like back up.

SPEAKER_02 5:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:50

You're in Atlanta, Georgia. We just had this conversation. Yes. Like, like I my brother is in Atlanta. You're a transplanted New Yorker in Atlanta for about 28 years.

SPEAKER_03 5:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

But is that the beginning? When did you start Pilates?

SPEAKER_03 6:04

Actually, I started Pilates in 1999.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

Before the turn of the century.

SPEAKER_03 6:08

Before the turn of the century, yes. And um I had been in the fitness space part-time since I was 23. And um I was working at a gym in in Atlanta at that point. And um there was a class called Pilates, and that a woman was having at the gym. So I was curious what it was. And uh let me tell you first, after I did my first Pilates class, I was really upset. And I'll tell you why. So the reason is is because I I loved it so much right off the bat, and I was so upset that I'd never heard about these exercises before.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

So you had that moment of like, wow.

SPEAKER_03 6:48

Yeah. Totally. It helped my back. I mean, I felt amazing. And as a personal trainer, that part-time, I was always looking for exercises to help my clients not hurt themselves when they were lifting when I wasn't there, or when they would play sports and stuff like that. And then when I took that class, I was like, this is these are the exercises I've been looking for my whole life.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

Right, right, right. I love that because I I I think many listeners would would agree that they had similar experience, right? They found this thing they couldn't, they didn't quite know it existed. They didn't, they didn't know they were, you know, it it was even an option, but it did something that made a difference. Um, so you didn't walk in through the dance door.

SPEAKER_03 7:32

No, not a dancer at all. In fact, my wife can testify that I'm a terrible dancer. She's she's an excellent dancer. So definitely not dance more through um just fitness and wanting to uh prevent injury and and perform at a high level.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

Great. Um, and your studio is in Atlanta, Georgia.

SPEAKER_03 7:50

Yeah, it's actually we're in the suburbs, or just a little outside of Atlanta in a two studios, one in Duluth, Georgia, and one in Lawrenceville, Georgia.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

Great. Um, and let's just talk a little bit about who you trained with.

SPEAKER_03 8:04

Well, my first exposure to Pilates was a woman named Sarah Merrick, um, who's originally from Canada and she was more on the contemporary side, but still through that it was great. I mean, I there was she was such a good teacher. So I started training with her right away. And um, then as I learned more about Pilates, I would I showed her pictures of Joe working out. I'm like, this is the stuff I want to learn. And she was humble enough, she said, well, you need to learn classical Pilates if you want to do that stuff. And um, so then that sent me in that direction. And um, at that time I trained with Power Pilates. There was a um studio in in Atlanta at the time with a fantastic teacher, Davison, who was running a training program. So I bridged into that program and um never looked back. And then um that training um program changed over time, and so I kind of left that a little bit. And uh a friend of mine um who lives in Chicago, she's like, You got to meet Jay Grimes. And that was in 2011, 2012. And she's like, I'm having a workshop, it's a men's exercise workshop. So come on, you can go to the workshop for free. I need more men in this workshop that Jay is teaching. And so then I met Jay, and that totally changed my whole um perspective on the work that I'd been doing at that point for 13, 14 years, which I I thought I was really good at this work. And then I'm then you met Jay. I met Jay, was totally, totally humbled there.

SPEAKER_00 9:33

So um, well, I I mean, I think that's gonna take us nicely into this conversation about training the athlete. What do you wish more people knew about training with someone like Jay and classical Pilates?

SPEAKER_03 9:47

Um, well, I think one thing Jay always emphasized, he said, trust the work, it works. So I took that to heart because uh it in when I started working with him, the work that he showed me, you know, he was teaching as as uh close to how Joe taught in his studio as possible. And I I helped me trust the work even more and give me a lot of clarity on um what Joe was actually trying to do and um and how he taught in his studio.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

Um you know what, Joel, in on this podcast, we've we've explored things like men in Pilates and we've explored athleticism in Pilates. And and I I actually am so happy to have you here to sort of like pull these two threads together. Classical Pilates has a lot of athleticism in it, right? And so we're in this environment now where everybody is kind of is is reaching for things that are athletic in nature. And how do you make Pilates more more fitness oriented? Um and and so many times I just want to like shake people and be like, if that is what you're looking for, then why don't you go to the source and and explore classical Pilates? Is that would would that be a recommendation you would make for personal trainers entering into Pilates today?

SPEAKER_03 11:08

Yeah, I I really would. Um, because I think for personal trainers, good personal trainers who are really knowledgeable when they get exposed to the original work, as it was, um, they'll appreciate it because they'll realize, oh, this is like an old school skill-based workout. You don't just jump in to a group fitness class, you know, like step aerobics or anything like that. These are they're skills you have to learn.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 11:33

And you have to hit this foundation first and then you build on that.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

You build those skills.

SPEAKER_03 11:37

Yeah, you build those skills. So I think um good personal trainers who um like to progress people will realize, oh, there's there's things you have to learn to get good at this. You just you're not just good at it walking in the door.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

Right, which can be a little humbling.

SPEAKER_03 11:52

Very humbling. Very humbling.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

All right, which then brings us to the high-performing athlete. So I'm curious, um, how did that start for you? How did you start working with a high-performing athlete?

SPEAKER_03 12:01

Being in Atlanta, there's professional teams there. So we've always had pro athletes popping in off-season and stuff. But with our Olympians, there's a fantastic swim club in Atlanta called Swim Atlanta. And um, the owner and his son uh had both started doing Pilates. And the son's wife, who was the Olympian, um, Amanda, she wanted to do Pilates too, just to help her with some cross-training. So we were very fortunate in that they they found our studio and they wanted to do, you know, classical Pilates. And so, um, and we lived in that same same area where they were. So the main coach, um Chris Davis, um sent sent her over. And um then we just we started working with her, myself, and then one of my, especially one of my senior staff members, Kim, both of us uh worked with her a lot. And um, it was it was a great experience.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

How does Pilates benefit the swimmer, the high performing swimmer?

SPEAKER_03 12:56

Yeah. Um well it it's fantastic because swimming, like a lot of sports, um, it's really linear, right? Um, I mean, you're moving, you're doing like butterfly and going up and down, but there's not much, you know, side to side. And, you know, swimmers are strong if they've been, if they're making it to that collegiate level or Olympic level, um, you know, they've been doing the same movements over and over and over again. So getting them into those other ranges of motion is really important for them, just for their overall joint health, because you can get, especially swimming. I mean, it's at the same strokes with the shoulders, same uh over and over again.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

You can get over full range. Full range, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:35

And and you're in boy, you know, you're in a buoyant environment, which can make you you know push harder in those joints because you don't have gravity's feedback telling you to back off. Um, so you can get overuse a lot, you know, overuse injuries, um, the itises, you know, bursitis. All the items of the itises can come out from that overuse. So um Pilates is really good to help bring the person to ground zero as far as connecting their limbs into their trunk, but then also working them in ranges of motion that they don't do every day, day in, day out in their specific sport.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

Yeah, yeah. And um it's it's interesting because if you just think about a lot of the um, let's just use the reformer and and the straps. There's a lot of um working uh strengthening at end ranges. And when you think of a stroke and the full range of a stroke, the power they need at end ranges of the joints. Um, so it seems like a you know, and that in spring tension, right? It's kind of in interesting with water, but that seems to be a natural pairing.

SPEAKER_03 14:40

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And to that point, um, Joy, you know, for a swimmer, you're always trying to get into that new water, right? To for your stroke. So it's easy to disconnect to try to get there rather than stay connected and reach from your trunk so you stay strong and you don't get those overuse injuries because you're working in the the right muscles to do that. And so Pilates, as we all know, you know, really helps connect the limbs into the body. So you're working from the right places. So that's great.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

And there's there's where the power lies, right? Exactly. Um, how does working with an Olympic level athlete differ from other athletes?

SPEAKER_03 15:17

Well, for one, they sometimes learn quicker because they're so, so focused. Um, but they still have to learn those skills, right? Um, so when we start working with even an Olympic level person, we start with the basics still. I still teach them the basics. Just because they're an Olympic athlete, they still have to learn these skills, right? Which in learning those skills, they really appreciate. Because they're an athlete, they they know the value of, okay, let's step back, work these foundation things so I can progress here later. So that's that was kind of nice too. Um, even though they're high performing, they have the patience and discipline to back off because they know this is going to help them with their sport, even though it's something, something totally different. Whereas some um regular people, it's like, oh, I want to do something different every time. And I want to, I want to look, do what I'm seeing on Instagram and stuff like that. But with the the the athletes, I mean, their whole life is doing the same thing over and over again. So they they appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Uh I I mean, I think that's an interesting, that's that's an interesting thought, right? That that um uh an athlete coming in has the patience and the discipline to sort of go back. Um and and somebody coming off the street might be like, well, I don't like like it might not resonate with them to start. Uh, where is that bridge, would you say? Uh would you say it's in the foundational exercises, like like once like leveling everyone into those baseline skills where where the mindsets actually start to cross or merge?

SPEAKER_03 16:52

Yeah, I would say exactly. It's exactly bringing them to those basic skills, but teaching them in a way that to where they can feel it and feel value in it on first session. Right. So getting really good at teaching those basic uh fundamental elements of contrology and of what Joe taught is super important for for everybody, whether whether you're an athlete or you know, an everyday person.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

So today, uh, you know, I started in personal training as well. So, so you know, the the common theme is I want to work harder, I want to work harder, I want to work harder. But with athleticism, there's a I want to work better. Um how does that, how does that work inside of the Pilates space, particularly inside the classical Pilates space?

SPEAKER_03 17:41

Yeah, I think um in Contrology or classical Pilates, because it is, you know, skill-based, um, you kind of right off, right off the bat start by learning these foundation exercises and feeling them and then putting it out there like this is where you go next with that. You know, and try to get people out of the state of mind of working to complete exhaustion. I mean, even in Joe's book, he said, you know, you don't work to complete exhaustion because if your technique drops, now you're just training bad movement patterns, right? Right. So don't work to exhaustion. And so getting the the and at some of the athletes, most of the athletes understand that because they're using this to supplement their main career.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

Right.

SPEAKER_03 18:26

Um, the everyday people, there's this obsession with um working to exhaustion. But that you know can have consequences of injuries, and then your central nervous system doesn't necessarily like that, and you can't sleep well because you're just working too hard and not doing things then to like compensate for that at the end of a workout to like calm yourself down so you can sleep well at night. So, but there's this, there's like an obsession, especially nowadays, to push, push, push, push, push. And that's not always the best way to work out.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

No, and I think, but that's such an that's such an important like concept. And I I hope you guys out there are hearing that, right? That it harder isn't necessarily better, right? And and this this holistic approach to building skills is just such a lovely way of treating the body and and and respecting the body. Um, I I I think that's that's huge. And I love that for you, that's coming through the athlete as well. Um, so an athlete, they will remain unnamed, but an I had um an MBA player come into my studio and said, Oh, I I heard I need to come in and and work with you. And I really like me, like I actually wanted nothing to do with it because it's a lot of pressure, right? Somebody whose body is their career. Yes. Um, how are the stakes different for somebody whose body is their career?

SPEAKER_03 19:53

Well, first off, you want to be very careful that you don't injure them. Because I was so afraid that's their career. Yeah, that's their career. And the other thing too is um, even though you have a lot of knowledge, um, you're not their coach, right? So sometimes I've I've seen some teachers, they get for for one, they they get an athlete in and they want to prove to them that Pilates really works. And so their mission is like kick their butt their first session. I'm like, no, no, they need the basics. And most of your athletes, when you teach them the basics, they're sweating and dying, just trying to, you know, coordinate everything and find a two-way stretch and stay connected. There, that's plenty.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

That's right. It's plenty. Yeah. Trust the work.

SPEAKER_03 20:32

Trust the work, exactly. Yeah. Um, so there's that. So you don't want to kick their butt, you don't want to injure them. And then, like I said, you don't want to be their coach. So if you start coming up with like, well, you're a basketball player, you're a swimmer, or you're a golfer, let's do some golf-specific exercises because this will improve your spring, your swing. That's that's not your job. Right. Their coach is gonna hate you if you start talking about that because their coach works really hard on that. So teach the work as as as Joe laid it out. I mean, Jay always said, Joe did all the hard work for you. Just teach it, teach it well so they feel it, keep it safe. And once you tune their body, um, like Joe intended, then they get free gains in their sport without even thinking about Pilates because you've tuned their body, balanced it out, found their tight spots, addressed, addressed them. They can't sweep them under the rug anymore. You have to address those things. And then, like I said, they get all those free gains in their sport or activity.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

Yeah. So that brings up a really good point. Like, you know, we're we're on the eve of a of a big POT, you know, the Balanced Body's 50th year anniversary right here in Sacramento. And and there's a whole bunch of workshops. And a lot of those workshops are on fine-tuning this or, you know, for your ex tennis game, your pickleball game, your this, your that. Um, and I would say for the general population, learning some of these sport specific skills can be beneficial based on what you're just saying. It's like, no, like, like you. want to focus on the foundational work most with your with your higher performing athletes.

SPEAKER_03 22:07

You know, one thing Jay said is that learning how to do contrology, it's like tuning a piano. When you get that piano tuned, you can play classical, you can play jazz, you can play country, rock, whatever. But if the piano's out of tune, everything's going to sound bad on it. So my perspective on things and my studios, we focus on teaching the work as Joe intended. And then once that body's tuned, like I said, they're going to get free gains in everything, in everything they do. And um so we just, you know, we stick to that original work and we've found that it it works. Yeah. It works. And you focus on that and get really good at teaching that and you get all these results instead of doing sports specific things. Now that being said, once you know you teach the work, we do maybe some specific if things come up during the workout segment, like during the MAT, during the reform it will address some of those things with using all of the other equipment, the chairs, the Cadillac, the neck stretchers, whatever comes up. We have Joe has all those amazing tools to address those specific things. So it's not like we're ignoring, you know, certain things someone needs, we just use Joe's tools at the end of the workout when the body's ready for it.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

Right.

SPEAKER_03 23:21

Then we add those extra things in.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

Great. You have described your teaching as a mission to inspire others to achieve their fullest potential. What led you to that?

SPEAKER_03 23:33

I guess probably uh my own journey with this work, right? Um, because I thought it was pretty athletic. I mean I swam in high school as well too. Um so um I know what it's like to to push myself. But when I learned this work, that's like going back to the beginning. That's why I was so upset that I didn't know about this work until way until 1999.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

I wasn't sure if you were going to say you were upset because you didn't know it or you were upset because it was hard.

SPEAKER_03 24:01

Well yeah it was it was hard. It put me it was humbling it was humbling for sure. But um so I I found that it brought me to another level as far as being able to train without pain and being more aware of my structure when I do other types of workouts and other activities. So and then a big part of it too that I appreciated especially when I got into the work and started training was the the resiliency that the work teaches you because it's not again not about kicking your butt, wearing you out completely to where you're completely exhausted. It's really the opposite you work out it's a hard workout you're going to sweat and maybe feel a little bit sore but it's the the resiliency that you develop and the the strength that you always always say people people are like I want to get strong well you're already strong we just have to unlock your strength and discover your strength that's through doing this work listen I think that's another like we should put that on a shirt t-shirt right like you're already strong.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

We just need it's you're it's being unlocked it's being revealed. Yes. Yeah that's fantastic. So what does it mean for you uh training someone to their fullest potential if you if you're thinking about it that way that you're unlocking there's what's already there.

SPEAKER_03 25:15

Yeah well it's going to be unique to each person um but there's so much potential that people have that's why I love teaching the basics so much because when you teach the basics and you start getting someone moving their progress at the beginning is like exponential. Yeah. You know each time they come in they're like oh I can move my shoulder now I'm you're I'm thinking about keeping my abs in and engaging my center when I'm doing these everyday things and my posture's getting better and I'm noticing other people how bad other people's posture is and everything because their frame of reference is changing. So so with that um you know those are all of the the the extra benefits you get from from that training and and again sticking with those basics and and then you see this this amazing progress happen pretty quickly because a lot of the exercises that we do especially at the beginning address um biologically important systems in the body muscular and central nervous system your body wants to get into more balance right you just have to again unlock it provide this right amount of stress and uh then it will balance out yeah and so that's why those you get those results so quick uh at the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

I've often thought that like you know um someone walking up to any of the apparatus it might not seem intuitive right from the outside but that the experience of the exercises are very intuitive to the body um so so making you know illuminating them is is part of what just unlocks that experience like you had in your first class.

unknown 26:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

What do you wish more people knew about teaching teaching Pilates specifically or even sort of a larger concept of teaching movement skills?

SPEAKER_03 27:03

I think just that that it's skills and I always like to joke most people think they're better movers than they actually are when they come in you know they're and um so does that include uh athletes yeah that includes athletes because and athletes I always say athletes are the worst compensators are the I'm saying they're the best compensators ever because they're gonna get it done right whatever it takes and they have the athleticism to do that. Um so when you bring them back to some of the basics it's just amazing. I mean pro football players uh Olympic swimmers just getting them to do the mat work you know correctly and staying connected sitting up tall while they're moving other body parts they're sweating they're dying there's no reason to push them any harder than that you know until you know they get some of those basics down. So um yeah just that that again people think they're better movers than they are regular people and athletes and you know Joe Joe even said that in his book right right at the beginning that some of these exercises even the trained athlete won't be able to do. And he was 100% right. You know because so just because you're an athlete and you have that athleticism um side note that's one thing I love about this work is that athleticism totally out the window doesn't matter. This is Pilates is a it puts everybody on the same playing field universally yeah yeah because I have Olympic athletes Atlanta Falcons players and a 70 year old woman right next to them. Yeah and she's doing the work great and they're dying they're trying to do a roll-up just a roll up they can't do a roll up with their legs coming up and she's like who are these new people coming in here I love that Pilates Perspectives is brought to you by Balanced Body.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

If you teach Pilates you know that quality education and equipment are essential for a great class. Balanced Body partners with practitioners around the world as they invest in teacher training and equipment. Our apparatus is designed with instructors to ensure we include everything you need. Our industry leading warranties ensure our apparatus withstands years of daily use. Get $20 off your equipment order of $100 or more by visiting Pilates.com backslash podcast dash discount and follow the prompts. Well along those lines I mean what are your recommendations for people who might feel discouraged when like the the basic Pilates is is is challenging for them.

SPEAKER_03 29:38

Well I think that's where good teaching skills come in because you want to you know support them right you don't want to tell oh great job you know if if it's not a good job but tell them hey that was you're making progress you know this you made progress from this session to that session. So um it is it is hard and you know it's it's mentally and central nervous system taxing as well as physically taxing. So that's where your your training comes in and that's where you want to be a good a good coach and guide them through this work and support them because it is tough. And to that point that's one of the reasons why a lot of men don't do Pilates is because it's hard, right? It's a lot easier to just work on your pet muscles that you've always had strong, right?

SPEAKER_00 30:21

Right, right and then when you start doing some of the movements and some of the stretching and strengthening at the same time a lot of men are dying because it's addressing exactly what they need right yeah it's it's it's been interesting listening to the conversations around um more men certainly are finding Pilates today, but Pilates was a man, right? And a boxer and an athletic male who created this method. So I I'm always sort of like well I it's it's actually taken a hundred years but it's it's it's it's almost like it's coming home to the athlete and and you know to the you know the male body um so it doesn't it it doesn't surprise me when I see the 70 year old woman roll up and and the athletic male have a hard time because he Joe knew what he was doing.

SPEAKER_03 31:12

Yeah he did I mean these they address all of the issues that men experience um in everyday life and especially as as we age the tight backs, the tight hips it addresses those head on and you know until you get over that hump it can be unpleasant to you know until you get through that door.

SPEAKER_00 31:30

Does that you know I I would imagine and you tell me we're having worked with different levels athletes the mental and the physical um sort of being so in tune with the mental and the physical does being in a space like a Pilates space where there's a whole different level of challenge does does that do they go into the mental physical like like take on that challenge or is there almost like like is there a moment where it's like I I just don't know if I want to do this like that's a really good question.

SPEAKER_03 32:07

I think that um yeah there is that mental challenge and if people aren't up for that you know and if they have maybe an ego getting in the way psych them out. Yeah it can psych them out it can psych them out but a lot of that can be the atmosphere of the studio and um you know um if it's not welcoming to to people to support that that challenge because they're gonna come in and maybe they think Pilates is one thing and then they they do a class and it's a very very different experience at least you know like in our studio because we kind of teach like Joe originally taught and train people to be independent and stuff like that. So that can be challenging um to people. But it's all how the teacher frames it you know are you gonna you can you can support that and be like yeah these are tough and I'm you know this was tough for me too when I first started doing it but stick with it and it's gonna you know help your pot talk about how they're gonna feel afterwards you know and maybe throw in not without talking too much throw in a couple of the whys as far as why why are we doing this? Why is it worth going through the suffering at the beginning suffering at the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

Yeah it it's it's always a question that I've had you know because uh you know that level of performance is not anything that that like I've aspired to but I I've often wondered about people who who are doing something that they naturally excel in right and then they've they they come face to face with something that they've heard should help them but they don't naturally excel at it. And like that gap, does it inspire them or does it deflate them?

SPEAKER_03 33:47

It's is you know yeah that can depend on their individual personality. Some people rise to the occasion but then we can had so many clients with different personalities. So if that's the case then that's your job as a as a teacher or a coach or a guide through this work to to help them through that get you know to help them rise to that occasion and just tell them hey on the on the other side of frustration is going to be success. So just stick stick with it.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

Yeah success and and maybe actually in the thing that they are excelling in they start to notice a change.

SPEAKER_03 34:18

Yeah well and that's the beauty of this work is that pretty quickly if you train the body right they'll start noticing differences in their posture. I mean even after one session clients will come back and like I'm feeling taller or at least at least they're thinking about it. Like I heard your voice in my head to you know keep stay tall my posture. So that that's that's progress.

SPEAKER_00 34:37

All right so can you give us like a case study of one to two Olympians that you've trained?

SPEAKER_03 34:43

Yeah well um again uh Amanda is the well she's the medal winner um and been to three Olympics. Um I can't imagine yeah she's amazing amazing athlete um she came in I think she had um some low back things and some shoulder things going on and um so myself and and Kim uh my scene one of my senior teachers worked with her extensively again just putting her through the work and um just staying with those basics. And then as we learned her body a little bit and what we needed we would you know stay with we you know that original order but then tweak certain things specifically that she needed you know for her body. And um she loved it. She loved it and then um the coach loved it and um they sent over more athletes and um some you did see some similarities you know in that sport you're gonna see some similarities but again each body's a little bit different what they're what they're addressing. So yeah they just they they loved it they again they're they didn't want to be Pilates teachers or anything like that. But their objective was I'm gonna do anything to make me better at my swimming. Yeah. And so that's what we were there to facilitate that just you know as a form of cross-training for them to get better at at their their goal hit their goals.

SPEAKER_00 36:04

Yeah when I think of like a swimmer reaching for the wall right like there's no better example of of a two-way stretch.

SPEAKER_03 36:10

Yeah right exactly uh when they're pushing off that wall you're 100% right that push and reach out that is it the two-way stretch is in there yeah now just start consciously developing that in the studio so then they don't even have to think about it they get free gains right with that that's that's great stuff.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

Um okay so you mentioned the Atlanta Falcons so how does how does a a swimmer who's like pushing off the wall and has to reach you know have that that that that stride right that comes with power and the reach how does that differ from um a football player where in my in my brain it's almost like one is compression and one is reach.

SPEAKER_03 36:49

Yeah very very different and different uh same issues but different in some ways um the a lot of the football players we've had um are just super strong. I mean the I had at one point three offensive linemen coming in they were all buddies they all came in at the same time yeah they all came in well one came in and then he got his friends to come because he was having really good results and so their their thing again was just to try to to lengthen out and um again improve you know their their sport. I mean they had you know the offensive linemen those are just they're just getting their bodies slammed all the time. So a lot of that was now we need to do the work but work on decompressing your body a little bit because they're pushing off the line another guy who is also 200 300 pounds is slamming into them with the same amount of force. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 37:40

You got to resist that force and push against it.

SPEAKER_03 37:43

So that we were really working on again the resiliency of their joints you know they didn't need more strength training they do they're super strong. We just need to work more lengthening coordinating everything together and that's what that that was the challenge for them because even in the weight room that you know they need to pack on weight right so they have to do resistance training keep their muscle mass up but um so when they came to the studio we focused more on okay let's keep you connected but let's lengthen things out right and work you in in rotation right which will just start them sweating right away. Oh right away immediately yeah uh can you dispel a myth for me then okay you've got linebackers on a on a classical reformer yeah can you dispel the myth that everybody needs reformers to be larger and bigger yeah um they they didn't uh I do have um I do have some 86 inch reformers but most of my reformers are the original 80 inch size and they you can do right but I just just want to clarify the 86 inch yeah by most standards is still still small yeah because there's an 89 inch you can get yes yes um yeah so we were able to do everything and you have to remember too that you don't have to do every single exercise on the reformer if it's not right for that person. Right. So um these guys were huge um smallest one was six four but big so the footwork on the 80 inch wasn't right for them so we would start off with Matt we could do um get them on the Cadillac they could do footwork with their springs and then go to um go to the 80 inch and get their 100 and overhead and all that stuff over there. And then we got to short box series you know we have to gear it out for them so they have room for their legs but it was fine. We did most of the exercises on an 80 inch reformer for guys that were six foot four and and and bigger and then you always have the mat, right? You can always go to the mat. Right.

SPEAKER_00 39:39

Mat's one size fits all doesn't matter how big you are yes I I mean I I think really the sort of the moral that story for for listeners is is you know the equipment is adaptable you know uh and and yes of course you know bodies the 80 inch might not be right for all bodies but there is also other apparatus and and there are obviously you know um options in terms of sizes of apparatus today but but I just wanted people to hear from you that that yes you can work a linebacker on an 80 inch reformer.

SPEAKER_03 40:11

Yeah yeah the 80 inch is is begging for mercy but it it hangs in there um what's been one of the challenges with working with um Olympians and high level athletes the first thing that just comes to mind is that we get to work with them off season. So there's there's a chunk of the year when they're so focused right that uh we hope they're you know we hope they're doing some of their at least mat work for homework you know at home but um during the season when they're really training hard um they have they have to be so focused we won't see them in the studio for a while. So to keep them and they love it but they love what it does for their body and you just hope that you know they bank all that movement for the most of the year when we do get to see them for the swimmers. But then there's that time coming up when their their coach has them doing this regimen and doesn't want them to do anything else. So so that's kind of challenging. So then when they're it's off season you know getting them back in and stuff can be challenging. I mean even though they love it they're just they're so busy and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 41:19

Are they more likely than than um I hate to say regular client but but you know you know your your tried and true client that's coming to you 12 months of the year are are athletes more likely to do their homework?

SPEAKER_03 41:36

Yes if you and I've just found that I have to frame it in the right way and make it really simple. So like they're probably not going to remember all the full mat order. So I'll give them like these 10 exercises are the ones that you you need to do. So if you're traveling to go to an event when you're in that hotel room throw down a a floor a mat on or a towel on the floor yeah and just do whatever mat exercises you can do and um because they know it feels good and whatever you can remember just do it and that's going to help you you know reset that spot in your back that gets tight every single time or redo your shoulder like that.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

So so they do they um most of them because they feel good results they'll at least do a a a regimen a consistent small regimen that you that you give them they'll do that consistently um if you can change one thing about the current athletic landscape what would it be if you were a coach today the current athletic landscape was um let's yeah let's let's let's as far as athletes or as far as like everyday people doing workout let's let's start like hot like on the on a pyramid let's start with the Olympian right if if there was something in their training and in their in their experience that you think would benefit them what would what would you want to change?

SPEAKER_03 43:00

I would say to have at least one maybe two days where you're moving but they're recovery movements. Because they push push push so hard and a lot of the athletes are younger and on the outside they look really fit but inside at the cellular level and stuff there's so they accumulate a lot of damage in their body. And so just having one day where you still move but it's like recovery movements. You know you bring it down a lot and just mobilize those days or something like that and and and take a walk you know just do something different because again at the Olympic level gymnast swimmers I mean every day it's hard.

SPEAKER_00 43:41

So let's explore that for a second because I think that's um it's a that's a moment to really appreciate the method in that externally you could have someone who presents really strong, right? But what you're saying is on a cellular level than then you know a neurological level you know a circulatory level. There's something about the skills in the Pilates method and the way the body closes and opens, reaches, right? The way the joints move that nourish seems to nourish like that from, you know, again, like we say from the inside out, but I I really do literally mean from the inside out. Is that is that something like that that resonates with you or would you agree with that?

SPEAKER_03 44:29

Absolutely. I agree with that 100%. Because it totally and nourish I think is a really great word. So you're not again not working to exhaust. You're still working. You're still probably going to sweat a little bit. Yeah. But you're not, you know, working at at you know level 10, right? You're bringing it down to six or five. So that's your recovery workout. But yes, 100% it's nourishing. A lot of it is, you know, oxygenating your body and moving your joints in circular ranges of motion, linear ranges of motion, lateral ranges of motion. But then also built into the work, um, if you think about the order and how Joe did it, is there's a lot of like large blood vessel compression.

SPEAKER_00 45:12

Oh, I've never thought of that.

SPEAKER_03 45:14

And release. So it helps blood flow amazing. And everything's about blood flow. If you don't have good blood flow, it's going to cost you.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

And I don't think people realize that that that a good way to increase blood flow is to do that, is to compress right and then the I mean you do that a lot, but perfect example I think is like single leg stretch, double leg stretch. Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 45:35

You know, you have for one, you've got these big arteries that run on the left side of your belly button. Most most people it's on the left and then they split off in these two big giant arteries and blood vessels in your hips. Yeah. Right in that hip crease. Yep. You're pulling that in and you're comp I mean you're really pulling it in as long as the joints in flexion is okay with it. It's not it's not the single leg touch.

SPEAKER_02 45:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 45:56

It's the single leg stretch. Yes. Thank you. Pull that in. Yes. Compress those large blood vessels. So it's like if you're squeezing a hose, you're increasing that blood pressure then you're and you do that. And then the double leg stretch the same. And if you look at the order, it's it's all over.

SPEAKER_02 46:11

Right.

SPEAKER_03 46:11

So that when you compress those big big blood vessels, it gets all those little capillaries to open up all through your body because you've increased that blood pressure and released it. And so yeah it's totally nourishing some tissues that maybe if you're an athlete because you're doing the same thing over and over again and staying so linear, you're not getting blood flow to those other joints. But now we're we're making you as compact as possible, making you as long as possible, squeezing all those blood vessels, getting oxygen in your body it's it's super nourishing. So in that in that case it will really help it's restorative even though it's a workout but it'll build that resilience. And most people after a a good workout following Joe's order um they feel like they worked out but they feel great. They feel great right and and why and I think a big part of that is the blood flow. Yeah yeah so it's built in it's like I feel great. I mean I worked out it's like I feel relaxed but I feel great and kind of energized. Well it's because all your capillaries are open up it's like your face looks better too because you you know and then and then how does that affect your nervous system?

SPEAKER_00 47:14

And then you know it and and I I always love when people say to me well Pilates isn't cardiovascular yes I understand by the definition of cardiovascular training but when you think about what you're doing for the circulatory system overall you're you're making it more resilient so that hopefully but when you do go out for a run and do your cardio work you have that resiliency like you said.

SPEAKER_03 47:36

So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:37

Exactly um like full disclosure you know I I I bring this up because we are in a moment that is asking us to say well what is this Pilates thing anyway right as it expands and and and and and evolves like what what what how how do you talk about and describe and practice Pilates and the method and why is that valuable and and what we just discussed is this this um for so many people in an unknown thing right they just know they feel better but that compression and that release and that openness and that's that that lengthening into oneself I again the only word that comes to mind is nourishing you know um so yeah so thank you for taking that journey with me because I think it's very important.

SPEAKER_03 48:30

Oh it is and it just it kind of it's a whole new level of okay we're we're not just moving around I mean all movement is is good you know as long as it's not dangerous. Um but yeah when you again like Jay said Joe did all the hard work for us. So you follow his regimen um you just get all these great benefits.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

Yeah and and I think today we actually have the science behind yeah to to understand what those benefits are. Hey let's talk about Jay for a second. Okay. What was it what was it like you know meeting Jay?

SPEAKER_03 49:02

The first time I met Jay it was really great. We um got along uh really well the first time we met and um but at the same time he was he still was very you know uh always put me in my place was very very humbling as far as uh just my personality and then also um just how he taught me the work. Um one there's a little funny story this was this was um shortly after the pandemic uh when restaurants started opening up again and uh I was in LA with him and some others and um he said yeah Joel you know we were having lunch and he's like Joel I remember the first time I met you in Chicago at at Dana's studio and I saw you doing your work and I was like oh and he said and I just want to let you know I was thoroughly unimpressed. Oh and I'm like oh okay Jay and we all kind of laughed and I said well that's because I needed your help Jay that's why I came to you needed your help so that was kind of our our relationship we got along really good but he always he always you know had the right thing for me to to work on whatever I needed he'd be quiet for a while and then at the end of the workout I was like well maybe he didn't notice because in a group maybe he didn't notice me too much but then he'd say okay by the way I didn't how like how your the angle of your foot when you did your snake and twist and that was like way into the workout. So he remembered so he would always just give me like one thing to work on all the time. So he was a really great mentor in that and changed how I how I teach completely.

SPEAKER_00 50:33

Right.

SPEAKER_03 50:33

He didn't over he didn't over cue it he he he he picked one or two things yeah he really um and that's one thing I guess he learned from he really let the body move uh and he always said get used to seeing ugly Pilates well that's not not dangerous Pilates dangerous Pilates is not allowed not dangerous yeah but ugly Pilates it's you know get you get used to it because he always said because your Pilates was ugly at one time too you know so he was like yeah you're right so so you know I I learned that from him and just he would he would always give you what you wanted but but again he let Joe's work and and the you know the equipment that was to Joe's specs, you know, teach teach you. Because he always said Joe if you get this reformer that's to Joe's specs Joe is still in there and he's teaching you know and he was he was right. You know uh that idea of um not dangerous Pilates but ugly Pilates be okay with ugly Pilates uh that that actually empowers the individual to start finding it themselves doesn't it totally and in my stud that's the atmosphere of our studios we really train people to be independent uh you know um in that we're there as a coach right um but you let them move because there's no amount of words you're gonna say that's gonna accelerate them really learning this work. They have to find it in themselves. And it's another thing Jay used to always say is you you can't teach Pilates. He'd say that too just want to let you know sorry to disappoint you but none of you can teach Pilates you have to guide people in this work. They have to find it in themselves. So you're just a guide and that takes pressure off of you as a teacher and it allows the student to be bad because the only way they're going to get better is consistency in the reps. I mean you got to get before your hundred starts looking good you got to do it a thousand times.

SPEAKER_00 52:32

Well you know going back to this idea that sort of on that very internal piece of that compression and release there's now the mental piece of self-empowerment having your own experience and in that experience finding change um and those like you know like if we cycle that back to the Olympian right and and the high level athlete that that has I would imagine a value beyond anything that that can be expressed. But of course if you just take that to the individual level like wow that's everything. Yeah you know yeah um it's such a pleasure Joel talking to you about some of this and I love actually being able to sort of take these journeys because I I I do think that understanding the why isn't always necessarily about understanding the the mechanics of the shoulder joint. You know?

SPEAKER_03 53:27

Yeah you don't have to I mean just do the movements and and you get these gains. Now later on you can find out the why but if you get all caught up on the why to where well I'm not gonna do this until I fully understand it. Now you're missing out you know because this work is good. It's been it you know people always say oh well the the science and all that to me what beats science is evidence. I mean this this is an evidence it's been proved by the evidence that this stuff works right so if you're waiting on the science then you're wasting all your time where you could have been moving and getting better.

SPEAKER_00 54:00

Yeah well the science the science is catching up to like a hundred years of evidence for sure. Okay so rapid fire questions.

SPEAKER_03 54:07

Okay okay uh now that we've had this big conversation um what's your definition of Pilates Pilates is um that complete coordination of the mind body and spirit just like Joe said and when you unpack that there's a lot underneath so saying that is very simple. So Pilates is on the surface very simple but it's far from simplistic.

SPEAKER_00 54:28

Pilates is very simple but it's far from simplistic I feel like Joel like we've created multiple t-shirts here in this episode but little slogan.

SPEAKER_03 54:39

So that's what so it's it's it's moving you know from a a strong center uh in every range of motion possible that the human that the human body can do but with that um it takes a lot of focus and and concentration um to get your mind working in that in that that as well too so that would be my definition is I would just take it right from Joe's book and then expand on that a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 55:04

What's your favorite piece of Pilates equipment? It could be big or small.

SPEAKER_03 55:08

Wow you know it's funny I get that question sometimes I guess if I was only going to have one thing um maybe I guess the the Wunda chair. Oh tell me why um well because I I do like the the strengthening that you get from it and you can in a small little yeah small footprint you can work stretch strength and and mobility you know um with some of even the more advanced exercises so if that was the only piece I had I would I would probably have the chair.

SPEAKER_00 55:41

I think the chair needs more love. Like the you know every time I would teach a chair um workshop I'd be like I would remember oh I remember I love this exercise. Oh I love that exercise. Oh I love that exercise like like we we we we need to move ourselves over to the chair more often I think um all right what's one misunderstanding about either Pilates or the larger profession that you wish more people understood?

SPEAKER_03 56:06

Well about Pilates I guess it's um one that it's it's just stretching right there's always that mis misconception that some people think oh it's just stretching right so that um because it's there's a lot of strength that happens with that stretching. And then the other uh misconception is to um to make technique more important. You know um again let people move but emphasize you know better better technique and realize that that um you know skill building is is is really important.

SPEAKER_00 56:44

It's like find the threads and pull them through yeah you know or the skills and build upon them. All right what's one habit that you do for yourself that complements your Pilates practice?

SPEAKER_03 56:59

Well I do I do like to run and I do like to do um when I can fit in my schedule uh Muay Thai. Um so I do those things for myself and um that's very cool. Yeah and then um take take some supplements and drink lots of water plenty of water very good I could I I've got my water right here.

SPEAKER_00 57:23

I should be drinking it yeah do you have um any books or podcasts that you would recommend oh that I would recommend um well for Pilates it definitely would recommend um you know Joe's books first.

SPEAKER_03 57:34

Yeah it's a surprising how few teachers have actually read Joe's book. The other one is my friend Sandy Shimoda her book the Contrology Handbook which you happen to have right there that that I would really recommend for for clients and teachers. And she did a good job of preserving some of the highlights of the the lessons that Jay taught in that book. Yeah but I would as as far as staying with with you know in the Pilates world I'd I recommend those. Yeah. All right so before we conclude for today uh where can our listeners find you oh I do posts on Instagram it's JC Vitality Method on Instagram uh and it's the same it's vitality method at um on Facebook for social media uh the main website is uh vitality method.com so uh I do train people um over Zoom all over the world um so if people want to work with me get a get a lesson to see kind of my style of teaching um just go to that website create an account and you can you know book a session either group or or or a private session but we do you know we do teach people kind of independently so I will be coaching you but I expect you to kind of do some work as well.

SPEAKER_00 58:45

All right I actually have one more question so so put yourself back in in the you know the young Joel Crosby who is in the gym as the personal trainer um what would you say to a personal trainer today you know why should they consider training in Pilates?

SPEAKER_03 59:07

Just because it helps you get good structure and good technique that's gonna help you train your clients in any other modality but whether it's resistance training you're gonna have better technique more awareness of where your body is so that you're not just you know packing on weights with bad structure because that's where the injury happens. So I would for myself younger and uh other personal trainers it would be like hey learn about this work um just so you have good structure and you can it'll just let you do the things you love for many, many more years than you'd be able to if you didn't do that work.

SPEAKER_00 59:44

Fantastic. Joel Crosby thank you so much Joy just so lovely having you here today so so grateful.

SPEAKER_03 59:51

Thank you for the invitation and it's it's been great. It's been a great conversation