SPEAKER_00 0:11

Welcome to Pilates Perspectives. Today we have Stephanie Forster to discuss pregnancy and Pilates, including prenatal care, movement, and postpartum recovery. But before we begin, let's check in. With the topic of caring and birthing a child, the act of creation comes to mind. The impulse to create is ubiquitous and it's a human experience. There are many ways to create, to bring something to life. That could be something as simple and instinctive as cooking a hot meal. It could be writing a song or a poem. It might be something more manual like carpentry or welding. There are so many ways in which we create that we may take it for granted. So let's allow your mind to clear for a moment. Take a deep belly breath in. And exhale slowly out the mouth. And as you continue your steady circular breathing, reflect for a moment on the ways that you create in your daily life. Or as a hobby. What does it feel like to be immersed in the act of building, crafting, composing, whatever it may be? Now imagine you're there, your hands and your mind busy, the thoughts and worries of the day trailing out the back of your head as you focus on what you're making. What textures do you feel? What sounds do you hear? Does that experience have a scent? Now don't forget, keep breathing. Take another deep inhale, and you can count one, two, three, four. Hold for three, two, one, and exhale for a count of I don't know, four, five, six, or even seven. Now that thing that you're creating in your mind, imagine it complete. What does it feel like to have finished creating something? Is there a sense of satisfaction? Maybe you feel proud of yourself or excited to share your craft. You've taken isolated parts of something that may have not meant much on their own and married them together to create something new, unique, something that is yours. Allow the feeling of gratitude, excitement, pride to wash over you like a cool waterfall. See if you can appreciate yourself and the hard work you've put in, the imagination or the technical skill it may have taken, and the dedication and focus required to bring something from the very start to its finish, to bring something to life. Now let yourself sit with a sense of fulfillment for a moment as we move into today's episode. So thank you as always for taking that time. Today we're being visited by Stephanie Forster, founder of Prego Pilates and Balanced Body Educator, and the director of pre and postnatal education at EHS Pilates. Based in San Francisco, California, Stephanie comes to us with over 25 years of experience and a passion for working with pre- and postnatal clients, especially those struggling with diastasis recti, prolapse, and pelvic health issues. You can find Stephanie at pregopilates.com or at Prego Pilates on Instagram. Welcome Stephanie. All right, welcome Stephanie Forrester to Pilates Perspectives. And today our official title is Pregnancy in Pilates. But actually, knowing you and knowing me, um, instead of the vagina monologues, I think this is more like the vagina dialogue. I would totally agree. So, so I think we should we should sort of really jump into it. But first, I'd like to introduce the audience to you and to a little bit about your work. Can you tell me and the audience how did you get into specifically Pilates and pregnancy as sort of your focus? Surprise, I got pregnant.

SPEAKER_02 4:46

Uh, it was about three-quarters of the way through my certification process. So it just put me on this track of being very interested in figuring out like what is actually out there. And this was 2004. So there was not a lot out there in terms of just stuff around prenatal Pilates. There was much more in the world of yoga than there was around the world of Pilates. And so it kind of that's really what opened the door for me of like, this is really interesting. Like as a mover and a dancer, um, I sort of used my own body a little bit as an experimentation process. Yes, we yes, as we do. As we do. So that's sort of what set me on the journey was my own personal experience. And I think that that's also what made me really passionate about it and wanting to learn more beyond sort of what was out there, and then trying to pass that on to other people.

SPEAKER_00 5:50

You and I have had several conversations about doing something around women's health across the lifespan. So I know that this pregnancy is not your only passion, but that you're very, you're very interested in women's health. And and as you said, in 2004, when you were pregnant, you used your own self as as the experimentation for and for the platform that that is pregnancy and Pilates. But that's actually an interesting concept in Pilates to date because we're such a young, relatively young industry that that there was nothing pregnancy and Pilates, and then we all got pregnant. And then there was nothing about menopause, but guess what? We all had hot flashes, right? Yes. So so we're all sort of writing the story as it in many ways as we're going through our own experiences. Across like your personal trajectory, what how have you seen the conversation on women's health and Pilates change over the years?

SPEAKER_02 6:55

I would say it's definitely much more out there now, both in a good and a bad way. Like I feel like there's a real sort of pre-social media and post-social media era around what the conversation is. It's definitely much more out there. There's a lot more people who are doing the work, I would say, both good and bad. I think my biggest issue around women's health in general is the crazy stats. And you and I have talked about this, that it wasn't until 1994 that the NIH actually put guidelines around including women in women's health trials of any kind, and we were just treated as small men. Yeah. And I think that a lot of that has also been true in exercise science. And so now what you're getting, I feel, is you're getting a generation of there's women, physical therapists and trainers and biomechanic and scientists who are actually starting to do work around um women's bodies and working out, which I think is that's sort of where I what I'm super passionate about is I'm myself not a huge data nerd, but what I love is listening to people who go in and they like, here, we looked at all these like PubMed studies and we did all these things, and this is what we're finding out. And I think the really tricky thing around this world, and this is true particularly in the world of exercise, and what's confusing for trainers, it's confusing for clients, is that for everything that you read, there's something else that says, no, that's actually not correct. So, how do you navigate all of that information?

SPEAKER_00 8:38

Yeah, you know, it's really something that has been on my mind these, I'm gonna say from COVID on. Um, we, you know, again, being a relatively young industry, we all took anecdotal evidence uh from our clients, and we made applications and generalizations. And but now science actually is meeting us, and that science is shifting and changing. So, how do we stay, how do we navigate that?

SPEAKER_02 9:14

Well, I think one thing that we can do is I think there are a couple people. I've done a lot of my sort of continuing education in the world of sort of pelvic health physiotherapists. And there are a couple of people out there whose work I really respect, who are total data nerds and who are actually starting to do longitudinal studies and sort of seeing like what I don't know if works is the right thing, but really looking at the data of like if we're doing exercises and we're let's say we have monitors like in in the pelvic floor where we're tracking stuff that you are sonogram research that started to happen. Like Diane Lee did a big study. Um, and so we are starting to get some actual answers around a lot of myths that we're realizing, oh, we don't actually know. So I think the really tricky thing is that we don't know.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

We have to admit we don't know. So now we are sort of so let me orient the audience. We're we're we're starting this conversation um around the pelvic floor. Yeah, right. Okay. So so in terms of the pelvic floor, let's acknowledge we don't know. We don't know.

SPEAKER_02 10:30

We don't know a lot. Like what we and so much of what we were told in terms of um advice, one of the things I was sort of nerding out a little bit this weekend looking at statistics. And so one of the things that I did a little bit of research on is that OBGYNs in this country are in the group of four practitioners. So it's neurosurgeons, cardiovascular surgeons, obgyns, and orthopedic surgeons have the highest malpractice insurance rates out of anybody in the medical profession. Anywhere from 100 to 250 K a year.

unknown 11:11

Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_02 11:12

So a lot of the advice that's out there or the guidelines are not based in data science. They're not, they're based in not wanting to get sued, which is totally understandable, right? Um, and so it just that that was just an interesting statistic to me in terms of our guidelines and how ACOG, so American College of Obstetrics, Obstetrics and Gynecology, they have really changed their guidelines around exercise. Like if you go back to Victorian times, bed rest.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

Right. So what's and at that time, Victorian times, if you were either pregnant or you were going through menopause, uh, or if you were just having a bad day, you were hysterical. Yes. Right? Um, like so the view of women and women's health and women's mental well-being was very, very different than it is to was very different.

SPEAKER_02 12:06

And then for instance, around pelvic floor stuff, initially all of the research was do as many cagles as possible when you're pregnant because you want to strengthen the pelvic floor. And yes, we want to strengthen the pelvic floor, but a healthy muscle is one that can contract equally as well as well as it can release, right? So we want, and there was no talk about release. So we're only talking about contract, contract, contract. And I always joke.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

Did they talk about cagles during the Victorian era?

SPEAKER_02 12:36

Definitely not in the Victorian era, because this came out.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

I wanted to put that in context.

SPEAKER_02 12:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

Yeah. Sorry. We've moved from the Victorian era to the 50s.

SPEAKER_02 12:44

Yeah, we're we fast forward to the 50s. We fast forward to the 50s, but where that was sort of the original, like in if we even jump even further into like the 70s and Lamas, you know, and that was sort of the first like childbirth, exercise classes, that sort of thing. But there was so much the that focus around the pelvic floor was just about activation. It wasn't about release. And so one of the things I always tell my clients is if you are just cagling all the time, your baby is most likely going to hit a cast iron skillet on the way out the door. Like we need to actually learn how to release our pelvic floor. And this is something coming back to Pilates, right? Where breathing. And so I always feel like it's not a matter of when you're teaching prenatal Pilates or postnatal Pilates, it's not about reinventing the wheel. Like you have the toolbox and Pilates. It's just about bringing a little bit of a different perspective. It's about like how you're cueing and understanding, like if we're talking about the connection of the piston system, the inner core, the pelvic floor, it's all already there in what we're teaching. It's just about context.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

So let's look at let's look at context. Well, and let's just back up in terms of um, I think metaphorically a cast iron skillet. Let's um so let's talk about some of the misconceptions you often hear about pregnancy, right? The pre pre-pregnancy, pregnancy, birth, and postpartum. So let's let's take pre-pregnancy. What are what are some of the misconceptions or some of the myths that exist?

SPEAKER_02 14:29

Well, I think some of the myths around pre-pregnancy, certainly around people who were doing any kind of fertility treatments or IVF, was originally to not do anything at all. Like to be, it we get back to like this idea of bed rest and women, it's it's sort of this idea of women being frail and needing to rest. Um and all of the stats that we know now, uh, except for, you know, post uh implantation, right? There's a two-week period where they really don't want you doing anything. But other than that, they actually want people to move. It's very important for people to move, to have awareness around their breath, to, and the things that we do in Pilates around stretching and core awareness and mobility are all things that are actually going to promote fertility and getting fit. And I think that that's something where the it's slowly starting to change.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Um, have they in terms of studies, are there any studies that that are have clearly indicated that that mobility, I mean, uh gosh, you know, when I think about spinal mobility and increased circulation and you think about joint movements, you can see how that could be healthy in terms of implantation. But are what are the studies around that?

SPEAKER_02 15:58

So I don't have exact studies, but there are when we air this episode, I'm gonna provide like some. I think we can do like some PDFs, little things that go along with the episode. Is that correct? I'm getting yeses. Yes. Yeah, we can link them in the description. So there are um, so there are ways in there are some studies out there that show that um it's it's not detrimental, it's not harming. They don't necessarily have the stats of like it's going to improve your chances. Right. But the but it's the work is more it's certainly not gonna harm. It's it's not gonna cause harm. And I think one of the areas too where things have really changed is the whole idea of um, you know, you gotta love the the Victorian medical terms like the incompetent cervix, right? Which it's uh don't even get me starred.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

Did you know I have an incompetent cervix? And how does it feel, Joy? Well, uh I I liked it when the the last time I talked to somebody, they said, well, it's actually unremarkable. I'm like, fantastic. It's the only time in my life that incompetency and unremarkable somehow I'm grateful for the unremarkable. But anyway, go ahead. So, you know, it's this interesting all this stuff you guys know way too much about me out there.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

Sorry, go ahead. So there is an interesting conundrum because for instance, they have done studies where they, you know, when you have a surclage. So for those of you who um that is a new basically if you have more, sometimes they also call incompetent cervic. I think they've now moved to calling it cervic cervical, I think it's um instability or something like that is sort of the newer term. Yeah. And so what they'll do is they'll go in and they actually like stitch the cervix up. Um, and so there are still, it's still considered high risk. So they don't, on the one hand, there are studies that show that um putting people on bed rest in that situation has much more long-term detrimental effects in terms of cardiovascular health, mental health, perinatal depression, um, birth in terms of like how the birth goes, but it's still considered high risk. And so they still say don't exercise, even though there's data out there that shows that gentle movement. Like, I'm not talking like have a circlage and go jump on a trampoline.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

Circlage, is that what they're calling it? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

That's the when they when they sew it up.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

Yeah. So, so uh, if I'm hearing you correctly, that that unless there's circumstances like a circlage, um, unless there are circumstances that make the pregnancy high risk, that that movement and exercise is not harmful.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

It's not harmful. Uh, and it actually promotes uh they know that people who are on bed rest for long periods of time are at much higher risk for certain things. So it's a matter of being moving gently, but moving, moving your body.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Um, I I recall the recommendation was whatever you were doing before you got pregnant in terms of exercise is an excellent way to go, but that not to suddenly jump into training for a marathon. Um, which there's a you know, there's obviously a wide spectrum um there. It do you do you subscribe to that theory?

SPEAKER_02 19:40

I feel like I I would say I don't know because the the research is always changing. Like I feel like things that there were certain things that maybe I did in the beginning of my practice that have proven themselves um to not necessarily be true anymore because the research has changed. Um, it's interesting. I reviewed the newest ACOG guidelines from 2018. And literally the only thing that's very specifically contraindicated are contact sports, skydiving. Yeah. I could see that. I don't know why they would say that, right? Things like skiing, snowboarding. Uh-huh. Those are then there's a big list of like these are sort of mild contraindications, and then there's absolute contraindications of, but the actual sort of list is very small of the things that you absolutely cannot do. Like, I don't know if you remember this, but there was this whole thing out there of like don't twist. Do you remember this? I do remember. So no no twisting. Yes. That is also that has been pretty much debunked. It's also there was also no planking.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

No planking. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 20:54

So the concern with planking, or if you're doing stuff on all like four points, is that you might um sort of create more of a situation in diastasis, particularly in later, later pregnancy. Also unclear. So it's that's the thing that's so fascinating, is that the research is always changing and you have to just be very flexible. But where Pilates comes into this is that there's so much around. I also remember when I was first pregnant, and this is you know just over 20 years ago, prenatal yoga was so much more popular than Pilates. Yes. And there were so many people who are being told don't do, don't do core work. Right. Right. Like doing core work. So I was just about to ask you about core work specifically. Yeah. So we do wanna do core work. We wanna do stabilizing core work. We do, I mean, doing core work in pregnancy is what's gonna help you have a really fabulous posture and it's gonna support your back because what's one of the big things you hear is low back pain, right, in pregnancy. So we can do, and the advantage of Pilates is we can do core work in all sorts of different on modalities, right? I mean, on the reformer, on the mat, on the Cadillac, on the chair. And you're doing, you just want to avoid doing too many crunches. So like the the classical fives, I would say probably not highly recommended, you know, even though it's not on that list of like don't do these things, right? It's not skydiving. But the main reason would be is that you actually want your abdominal wall to be able to expand. So if you're doing like a hundred sets of fives every day, that's probably not going to promote an opening.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

All right. So let's let's take, we've we've already talked about an awful lot of stuff here. So let's let's let's give some of these things some context. So so before getting pregnant, um, sounds to me like if you're someone who is thinking in the next two, three, four, five years, I want to be pregnant, you actually want to think about your fitness now. Yes. You want to think about your health now. You want to think about move adding as much movement, quality movement, movement that you will do on a regular basis. And variety. And variety now. So that when you walk into your pregnancy, you're walking in not only from a fit and healthy place, but also a place where movement is a part of your language. Yes. Right? Your body's language. Um, and then if as we go into pregnancy, right, we want to talk about, let's talk about the first trimester. And let's actually take this idea of core work, first trimester. What would you say would be the the your top five go-tos and maybe your your your the things you would be like, I'm getting ready to maybe put these on a shelf for a little while.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

So I mean, I feel like in the first trimester, there's two two things at hand. One is you can still do pretty much everything at that point, like in terms of can and can't do. Part B of that is most people, not most, but let's just say at least 50% of people feel so awful, right? They feel so nauseous and they're so fatigued. Um, that that's actually the more limiting factor.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

I think that's really important. Say that again because because I think I think we go right to like, uh, ah, how are we gonna keep this person fit? How are we gonna keep this person healthy? One of the first things is get make at least get they're comfortable and they're coming back because they may not feel well.

SPEAKER_02 24:21

Yeah. So I will repeat what I just said, which is that they're actually physically able, capable of doing pretty much anything in terms of uh recommendations. But the challenge is that they often don't feel well in terms of nausea and fatigue are the two, I would say, writing factors of where it's very debilitating. So in terms of just gentle practice, breathing, like assisted roll downs, like that kind of core work you can do, or uh if they're still able, most most women are still able to lie on their back in the first trimester. Again, this is where experience is varies greatly, right? You have some people who can lie on their back for most of their pregnancy and be fine for a couple of minutes. And then there's people who literally they hit like 16 weeks and they're like, oh my god, it doesn't feel good, you know, and they just don't want to do it. But in terms of exercises, um, you know, I think any kind of um I love the arc, you know, for doing like assisted if we're doing in the first trimester like assisted roll downs on the arc so that you're opening up if going back doesn't make them feel nauseous. Nauseous, there's that. Um doing stuff on quadruped like mat work is also great, or even on the reformer we're doing, you know, kneeling abdominal work. You can do all of that stuff. Um I would say the biggest thing in the first trimester is just making sure that their inner core canister and their breathing system and that connection of how do we connect our breathing to the activation of the pelvic floor and using that first trimester as a time to kind of make sure that that's actually happening. Because you know, some people get out of whack in their breathing patterns or their breath holders, um, or they've gotten into this uh sort of history of like sucking in their stomach all the time.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

Yes. And so now research will say sucking in your stomach will do will affect the opposite response usually of the pelvic floor.

SPEAKER_02 26:31

Yes, because it totally screws with your inter abdominal pressure system. Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

Uh basically you want to get out of the way of that.

SPEAKER_02 26:40

Yeah, you want to get out of the way of that. And I think part of it is just learning, also just teaching some very uh basic biomechanics of like if you're going into a squat, like for instance, you're maybe, you know, holding on to the arm springs on a springboard, right? And you're going into a squat. So you've got an assisted squat. If you're inhaling, I'm naturally my diaphragm is sort of dropping a little bit, my sit bones are widening, I'm experiencing some pelvic floor expansion. And then as I come up, I'm exhaling and I'm activating and my pelvic floor is pulling up and my diaphragm is pulling up. But I want that both activation and release and just sort of teaching them the basics of like, oh, I'm on all fours. If I go into a cat, my sit bones are coming closer to my midline. So this is an opportunity for me to learn how to activate my pelvic floor. And if I'm going into more of a, you know, cow or camel um position, my sit bones are widening and connecting the breath to spinal mobility. Because that also comes into labor. That's right. That's right. So I think it's really the first trimester is really an opportunity to teach people about that piston system, but they can pretty much do everything as long as they're feeling up to it.

unknown 27:58

Right.

SPEAKER_02 27:58

And I think there's also a real motivation issue when you're just from fatigue of just sometimes I have people who show up and they're just so tired. I mean, and if you're in a group class, it's good it's like, hey, you made it through the door. Right. Like 90% of it is just getting there, right? Um, is that helpful? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

And now, well, let's let's uh very and what I what I loved about what you just described in terms of talking about the pelvis and the sitting bones and the the idea of both letting go and finding the sort of a collection or or a narrowing, if you will, is you're letting the sort of the bones and the directionality and the breathing do the learning. Um, instead of putting some thought in a head and making them have to do something, right? It happens in the movement and the breathing. Um, is that sort of something that you're comfortable like? Yeah, I mean, I put my putting it that way.

SPEAKER_02 28:54

Did you, I don't know what your experience was, but my experience was very much until I got pregnant, even when I was sort of through my Pilates journey, I wasn't thinking that much about the pelvic floor. Do you know what I mean? And and a lot of times when you say pelvic floor, people don't know what you're actually referring to. No, they lift their eyebrows. They lift their eyebrows and they squeeze their ass off because it's a very strong part of the pelvic floor, right? Yeah. So I think part of it is just bringing an awareness of uh Michelle Lyons, who's one of the people who I I love to follow and read, and she has great online education resources. She's a um a pelvic health physiotherapist based in Ireland. And um, she has this great stat sheet of all of these different exercises, many of which we do in Pilates. So everything from like lunges to side leg circles to bridging, and what percentage greater than a cagle they activate the pelvic floor. And it's anywhere like a bridge, if I remember correctly, is somewhere around like 35%. And a lunge is like 45%. So I think sometimes we get into this sort of modality or fixated around we're just isolating the pelvic floor and forgetting that whole body movement and functional movement, which Pilates is so incredible at, is actually also pelvic floor work. Like it's a whole body system.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

It's not an isolated perfectly within the scope of a trainer's uh repertoire to share, to share, right? We actually get in our own way when we start trying to engineer something in some, you know, uh uh around training, particularly of the pelvic floor.

SPEAKER_02 30:40

Yeah, where it's not in our scope of practice. And we can talk a little bit about that. I don't know if you want to talk about that now, or we can go. Uh you you brought it up. Go, okay, go. So uh one of the things that I feel really strongly about is like knowing what your scope of practice is.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 30:55

Um, being I've found that the more I know and the more continuing education I do, the less I know. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

Where I'm very aware of like, oh, I thought I knew all this stuff. And it changes. We started with that premise. Like that, you know, there's a lot here we're still learning, and it changes. You need to be flexible with the changing. Yeah. Information.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

Information. And so part of, you know, in many, particularly in Europe, for instance, pelvic health physical therapy is integrated into the general OBGYN care. So both pre- and post-natal, not so much in this country. Um, but in terms of scope of practice, where that comes is I highly recommend to most of my students and my clients that if they have the opportunity and the access to go to a pelvic health physical therapist, whether you're pregnant or not, it's good to know what's under the hood. And um literally. Literally, to know what's under the hood, right? And for instance, if someone uh comes to me or mentions in class that like they, whenever they run, uh they leak urine, right? Um, there's a real difference that eyes out outside of my scope of practice of like, is this something that's coming from a lack of tone? Is it something that's coming many, many women actually have um incontinence issues not from a lack of tone, but because their pelvic floor is holding on so much, right? Like they think they're at relaxed, but they're actually holding at like a level five, six, seven, or eight. There's no way in my scope of practice that I'm gonna know that. But if I'm partnering with a pelvic health PT and they've been authorized that pelvic health PT to talk to me and to give me information, how I'm gonna work with that person and how I'm going to cue them is gonna be very different. Like if the the news comes back of this person has a real like laxity of tone, like their pelvic floor is just it's not engaging at all. And it's actually weak from being unable to contract, right? Is a very different scenario than somebody who they are just completely tight all the time, right? Like their pelvic floor just is on and gripping. How I'm gonna cue that person and what exercises I'm going to give them is gonna be a very different scenario. So but the person walking in the door, you don't know. You don't know. No. And so it's having the conversation around encouraging people to get more information for themselves and explaining to them like why this might actually be really helpful. I mean, one of the great things about us as Pilates trainers, particularly in the world of prenatal, I'm gonna digress for just a second, is that we spend, if you have a client who comes to you either in a group class or as a private client and they come to you once or twice a week, you're gonna see them way more than they're going to see their umgyn on that journey. Right. So the average number of hours throughout an entire pregnancy that somebody is going to spend with their OBGYN is about 14 hours max. So if you think like even if someone's coming into your Plotti studio at like week 12 or 13 and they're seeing you until week 38, 39, 40, 41, and they're coming one hour a week, many people come too. That's a huge amount of time. That's an enormous window to educate people and to also be a referral network, right? And so that's where we have a, I think, this great gift because people will most likely come to, they're much more likely to come to a Pilates class than they are to go to a pelvic health PT.

SPEAKER_00 34:43

Right? Yeah. So so what I'm getting from you is certainly we could take our learnings, but we should not be, we should think about our scope of practice around exercise and make sure we have a referral sources around us to provide the other all, you know, the incremental information or the uh adjacent information that for our clients' health.

SPEAKER_02 35:10

Yeah, and sort of also having a little bit of an idea of and I did so totally didn't say that artfully.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

You you you you you get where I'm going.

SPEAKER_02 35:18

I get where you're going. Where I always say, like, I am the um the hub on a wheel of spokes.

SPEAKER_00 35:25

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 35:26

And where I have all these practitioners that I refer people to that can support pregnant people. Um, and in terms of what I can do as a Pilates trainer is that I can educate myself on these are the kind of things that are very common, but maybe not normal. So for instance, if I am talking to somebody who's a postpartum client and they're like six months postpartum and they're still leaking all the time when they're going on a run, that is very common, but that is not something that they have to live with for the rest of their life. So that is where I can then, you know, empower them or encourage them to just say, hey, you know, I think it would really benefit you if you went to see a public health PT because you don't need to be leaking every time you're running.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

All right. Let's come back to second trimester. Yes. All right. Second, so so we're only at the second trimester. Well, well, we've we're covering, we're we're actually covering a lot of ground here. Um, first trimester, right? Someone might not be feeling well. There's there's uh a a particular conversation to have there. How does it shift as you go into the second trimester? And what are what are some of the key things to to look for? What are some of the key conversations to have?

SPEAKER_02 36:44

Uh generally speaking, there's a for most people, the their energy level goes way up. That's like a a positive. The nausea starts to disappear, so they're functioning better. Two positives. Yeah, two positives. Um, and this is also though where some of the anatomical and physiological changes start to come in in terms of larger breasts and how that affects your posture. Um, also, sometimes uh this is where things can show up in the pelvis, like SI joint pain, pelvic girdle pain, um, pubic symphysis uh challenges, um, challenges in the feet sometimes, in terms of soreness in the in the feet, where extra the beginning of sort of gaining extra weight, where you can sort of start to see how that works itself out in the system. But generally, I would say it's a time where people are really enthusiastic of like, oh, I'm finally feeling better, I really want to work out. And where you can do a lot, you can still do many things. It's also the time where at some point varies in first pregnancies, second pregnancies, and also by person, where you can no longer lie on your stomach. So that's like a big thing in terms of looking at spinal mobility, spinal extension. How are we getting them to still be able to come into spinal extension if they can't be on their stomach anymore? Um, and then working on also strengthening upper body. I think one of the things I didn't realize is how much upper body strength, like a newborn and like newborn toddler. And you know, there used to be one speaking of myths, right? Don't lift heavy. And, you know, then you're talking to women who are on their second or third pregnancy and they have a 25 and a 40-pound child at home. That's right. That's why I'm chuckling. I'm like, don't lift heavy. Yeah. Yeah. Where they're lifting and car seats and I mean all of the things, right? Lifting and reaching, lifting and reaching, and twisting, twisting, all of that stuff that used to be like, no, no, no, no. And now it's like, how can we prepare them and strengthen them in this time where the second uh trimester, I feel like, is this a little bit of like a golden period of like where there's energy, there's motivation, and they can still do a lot. And it's like, okay, let's go for it. Yeah, you know, in terms of there's an opportunity here. Yeah. Yeah. So there's an opportunity to like, let's really work on loading, doing upper body strength stuff, doing a lot of pelvic stabilization stuff, thinking, you know, arc, sideline, springboard, cadillac, like side gluten mead, adductor, abductors, you know, getting all of that in alignment is really important because, you know, pubic synthesis and SI stuff can definitely, if you have, if the piston system is working, they're breathing properly, they're doing stabilizing core work, and then you're strengthening glut mead, side body, it's gonna have a huge influence in terms of pelvic girdle stuff. So I'd say it's a golden opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 39:55

It's a it's a golden opportunity. Today's episode is sponsored by Balanced Body. If you've dreamed of practicing Pilates at home, you want the space to work as beautifully as the equipment does. Balanced Body designs reformers and other apparatus that are beautifully handcrafted in California and made to be lived with rather than tucked away. We have what you need to set up and grow your home Pilates spaces. Get $20 off your equipment order of $100 or more by visiting Pilates.com slash podcast dash discount and follow the prompts. I'm just debating, so so bear with me here, everyone. But but when you talk about, you've already talked about the sit bones, you've talked about uh cueing from the pelvis, you've talked um uh you're now talking about co-contractors that are not only attached to the pelvis but but who have fossil attachments to the pelvic floor. So without, again, without us having a pelvic floor conversation, everything that you're doing here is for healthy pelvic mechanics of the pelvis with to the spine and to the legs and to the pelvic, the the pelvic floor uh uh and indirectly into the core, the sort of that inner cylinder. Yeah. How much mobility versus stabilization at this second trimester are you looking at? I think it again depends on who's the body in front of you. Yeah, I was hedging how I wanted to say this because I know that that's really the answer, but but but I think that's the that's a bit that becomes a question, doesn't it? It does.

SPEAKER_02 41:40

And I I feel like uh laterally, like lateral mermaids, any kind of like side opening the side body is really important because as the breast gets larger very often for people, and then the strain on the lumbar spine, uh thoracic mobility tends to kind of really uh recede a little bit. So anything, also rotation, getting the rib cage to mobilize is very important because as we know, if the rib cage gets stuck, it all travels down. I mean, then the pelvis also gets stuck, then you end up with this sort of like turned-out duck waddle walk where everything is just sort of holding on for dear life. So I think mobility, I think it's an even 50-50 in terms of like building building strength and at the same time wanting to uh open up. Similarly, in terms of we, you know, how the adductors connect to the pelvic floor, right? You want them to be strong for stability, but you don't want them to be so tight that they then impinge trying to let the letting the pelvic floor expand and open. And I think one of the in any in any trimester, in general, in working with people who are pregnant, what's really important is uh emphasizing to them that they try to learn to trust their own body. And that if something doesn't feel good, that even though an exercise may not be contraindicated, if it doesn't feel good on your body, don't do it. And to vocalize that, I think that's something that can be very difficult, where there's this whole thing of where the pup the pregnant body is a public body in a way, and everyone can like choose to comment on it. And I also feel like we're culturally in a place where pregnancy is the culture of fear, meets the culture of consumerism, right? So it's like you need the $2,000 stroller and your body's not capable, right? And and so I think where we have an opportunity as Pilates trainers is again that idea of being able to have people work. out in a way that is embodied and that is connected and that also allows them to really register that this exercise is really working for me. And sometimes it feels great in one class. And then the next week it doesn't feel good. And learning to vocalize that, because there's always a million variations. I mean that's the beauty of Pilates. There's so many planes and variations and modalities that oh you can't be on your back. Okay, we can get this into a different way. Or we you can't be on all fours, we can get you to standing or sitting on a ball or being on a chair. Like there's that's sort of the magic of Pilates is that it's very versatile. And so I feel like it's it's really this opportunity to get uh people to trust uh to to learn to trust their own bodies. I feel there's so much mistrust. Right. And that sort of like as we go into thinking about birth, there's so much fear, right? I feel like the things that we remove from our culture are like birth and death. Like we used to be around birth and death. Those have been removed like we're not around people who give birth or who die. And so that is something about trying to get people to feel like this is actually an empowering physical experience. Or it can be it can also yes it can be scary but that there is the opportunity to see it as like you are training somebody to be strong to breathe to learn to also let go and to trust their body to do this incredible thing.

SPEAKER_00 45:38

And there's beauty in that stunning beauty in that um I totally digressed that was fantastic that was fantastic. There's so much there's there there's so much there um and it is also a just a a stunning uh training ground for becoming the parent you're about to be right um do we want to move on to the third trimester well we do as we move into the third trimester I just want to sort of repeat the sort of in in that message one of the the the sim like the simplicity of it was staggering to me which is provide an environment where your client um is free to speak their experience.

SPEAKER_02 46:22

Yeah I feel like that that is something that's really important for women in general to learn because I feel there's I mean we could go on I mean there's so much cultural baggage around the body and how we look and then also you know you've controlled maybe the way that you look physically for a long time and then you get pregnant and you don't have that control anymore. And that can be really challenging and very difficult. Um but learning to also feel empowered to express how you are feeling physically and if something is not working for you that you're also able to be clear about that.

SPEAKER_00 47:04

Okay. So now we move into the third trimester.

SPEAKER_02 47:06

So the third trimester has some mirrors to the first in the sense that the energy tends to drop um which is why the second is the golden hour. The the second is the golden hour um you know where the energy drops and where you know things just are more difficult like getting up and down off the the floor like simply just having an awareness of when you're teaching a class or with a client you know not constantly changing the position that you have them in because you know if we're going to be on on the floor let's hang out on the floor for a while or then come to standing. And also I think that that's where the biggest change is in terms of uh people may really feel uncomfortable on their back at least for you know the the guidelines are no more than five minutes. Uh generally speaking I think if you have people on a wedge most people you know tend to be okay for a little bit longer. Does the angle of the wedge matter? You know I think it is really up to the person. Some people want to be more upright like for some people also if heartburn is an issue or reflux, then being on their back in general is like no. And I think for other people it really depends. Some people want something pretty mild I mean we have balanced body has those wedge pillows there's also uh where you can use the the jump board and kind of put the have you ever done that? No. Where you have the jump board and you have the tongue of the jump board and you're oh yes yes yes yes yes yes yes so like for instance if like the wedge pillow is you know they're a little soft. So if somebody wants something a little bit more firm. And for other people it's more like we're gonna put them on a box. They're gonna sit upright on a box or they're gonna sit against a ball, you know, like the medium-sized Swiss ball or whatever. Um but I I feel like the third trimester is this opportunity of where you're maybe moving more into sort of external limb work a little bit more in terms of upper body strengthening, working the legs, uh, and then also trying to prepare them a little bit for through breathing about what's gonna maybe happen in labor. You know, I think that that's a real I always say like I I advise people you know things that you can do at home is like when you're pooping which when you're pregnant is sometimes not so much if you get constipated is a great opportunity to learn that connection to the piston system and being able to like you know get get your feet up on like a squatty body or on some books or yoga blocks get your knees higher than your hips like in the process of having a bowel movement you actually can learn a lot about your bone um so there is something about that kind of education where you're just preparing people for I always say like things could things will always similar to parenting they're not going to be how you expect them to go. Right. Now you've done I mean listen you've done a lot of work you've you've been a student of many um so if you're a newer instructor and you're you're working with with clients like what are some very practical ways that they can they can teach sort of that uh knees just above the hips I'm thinking for example footwork right yes uh exactly like footwork or uh squatting on the on the springboard or do you hold like an assisted squat like an assisted assisted squat um there's also uh any kind of you know I think sideline footwork can be really great I tend to prefer to do it on the arc because I find that people have a little bit more support and you know if the rib cage is being compromised at all you can like even put a pillow on the arc but it's just easier to kind of be in that sideline position when you're doing footwork on the arc. Any kind of hip opening in general I mean even if we go back to like there's so much in Pilates fundamentals. So this is like one of the things where I think like for beginning trainers there's so much that works for pregnancy and postpartum that is like in the essentials that's like you know the doing cat camel doing things like um you know wag the tail like all of that heel slides right bridging yeah you know it's you don't have it's all there. You don't have to get super complicated or fancy. And so that would be like for I always say that um I think for trainers who are in the beginning of their career you have the toolbox. Pilates is the toolbox. So you know more than you think don't make it super complicated. Talk to the person in front of you listen to what they have to say and just focusing again on um you know very simple things like lunging bridging footwork um arm work you know do do the seated seated arm work very you know modified front rowing arm circles I mean all that stuff like you're still working the whole body and it's just how you are queuing it.

SPEAKER_00 52:39

Right it's it's your it's how you're approaching it and it's based on the experience of the person in front of you.

SPEAKER_02 52:44

Yeah at the end and it's very different if you're training somebody and this is true in the regular population as well right if it's somebody who is like a high level athlete or somebody who's been working out like four days a week super intensively doing super high cardio versus I also have people who come in who choose to start exercising when they get pregnant. Like they haven't they've been sedentary for a long time and they're like oh my God I'm pregnant I now I need to get on it. Like that's obviously like a very different type of person but Pilates can beautifully address both of those kinds of clients which is pretty amazing. And I always say that my joke about Pilates trainers is that they generally are overly cautious prenatal and overly ambitious postnatal overly cautious prenatal overly ambitious postnatal. So elaborate on that so what I mean by that is that like I actually feel like the pregnant body is capable of a lot like you can do many many things. I mean you're about to pop a human out of your out of your body so you know that's a that's a huge thing. And then I feel postnatal there's a little bit of a lack of awareness of um I just think culturally we're so obsessed with like getting my body back which is an awful term which I don't like I always feel like it's more about like moving forward but there's so much pressure that I think it's really easy to sort of to jump in too quickly into intense workouts as a way to um want to please the client um as opposed to I feel like very much the postpartum to me in the early months is about a reset of the nervous system about having especially given the fact that you have people who are having months of interrupted sleep, which we know people react to in very different ways. You know, there's like basically 33% of the population that does okay 33 where it's challenging and then 33 who really like can almost not function, right? So I feel like in a postpartum Pilates environment it's really about a reset of the nervous system. It's about a slow reintegration of your core, your pelvic floor it's about breathing, it's about um just allowing people to sink into an experience for 45 to 50 minutes where they can be present in their body and they don't are not necessarily needing to uh deal with the needs of a small human. It's different if you're teaching like a baby in me class, which is a whole other like ball of wax, but like if somebody's coming to you. And you know the research shows for instance like getting back to running it's really 12 weeks. We should not be running before 12 weeks. Like there's a lot you can do to prepare up to that to prepare but that ideally from a physiological standpoint. Granye Donnelly who's an Irish physiotherapist she did she has a great um resource uh it's called Return to Running postpartum it's a six week program it's free you can like download it you can give it to your clients you can study it I'll attach it to the information to this podcast but she basically wrote sort of her whole masters on returning to running um and and she's also got a lot of really interesting information around diastasis you can also say diastasis depending on how you like to um but so I just feel like sometimes there's a tendency postpartum for people to be like okay we're just gonna do hardcore core work and because this is the the thing that we want right of the like getting getting back to my my pre-baby body. I mean that's sort of culturally where we're at we're not in like a kinder gentler phase of I mean I always try to tell my clients it took you nine nine months give or take to grow a human right allow yourself plenty of grace especially given the fact that you're not sleeping and we know and this leads to other like in paramenopause menopause where interrupted sleep comes back it has huge effects on your functioning there's so much there.

SPEAKER_00 57:19

There's so much there but but um again I I think what you said about you know be we're too aggressive in in that sort of postpartum time to quickly get back. But that postpartum time is complicated. You now have a another you know you've brought a human into this world um you are feeding that human from your body your while your body is also um uh finding its way yes uh in it you know it's its new way forward right uh so what would be some of the some of the sort of your client is just given birth and they're just anxious to come back to you what would what would be some of the things you would say to your client and what would you say to a new instructor who is in the same situation?

SPEAKER_02 58:05

I would say for the instructor I would say refer to Pilates essentials I feel like movement principles Pilates essentials that's your golden nugget right there. I always say for my clients that if they can have a roller a theraband a gertie ball and a pinky ball maybe a magic circle at home those are things that can be really fabulous. You know I mean I feel like in the beginning we're really just talking about I mean breathing is the most basic form of core work right and you spend a lot of time like sitting on the couch feeding your baby like whether you're breastfeeding or bottle feeding you do a lot I remember being shocked at how much I was sitting I was like oh my God I'm so sedentary I'm on the couch all the time. And actually having a setup where you're seated in a way that helps you breathe that helps posture like just breathing while you're feeding your baby is a way in the very very early postpartum like the first week you know two weeks like just that is a way to just give a little bit of meditative time to um connect on breathing, doing very simple things like heel slides, um just super you know you do wrist wrist circles, arm circles, doing sternum drops on all four I mean just very simple things that um because similarly like oh it's 12 weeks until I can run there's also this thing in our culture where six weeks you have your baby and they're like oh bye we'll see you in six weeks. Uh-huh right so let's talk about that right which is also so ACOB also just came out and has acknowledged that that is not adequate. It's been like that for a long time. Surprise I mean this is where like the midwifery model it's day one, day three, day seven, day 14. Yeah. Like that's really where we should be at in terms of you know babies going to all these appointments and then with the mom it's just like well we'll see you in six weeks and it's this like crazy roller coaster ride for six weeks. And this is where the guidelines have been rooted for many decades in the Victorian like don't do any like yeah yeah only walk. That's it. Don't do anything else. And that research is also starting to change um where if you've been moving throughout your entire pregnancy and then you're telling somebody to just not move I mean it makes no sense right I mean it's it's a way where like doing very simple things like where you're uh just you know doing a little pelvic tilting and you're doing some leg slides breathing go back to the beginning. Yeah and what actually what a great way to get reacquainted with your body. Yeah and for trainers it's a great way to get reacquainted with sort of the Pilates fundamentals. Yeah you know like being on a roller and doing chicken legs. Yeah doing simple like arm overhead like just getting on a roller and like lying on a roller and just being there and breathing and having your you know doing some chest opening doing some single double arm overhead stuff. You know one of the other things that changed is they used to say like you can't bridge until your Lokia flow has stopped and that research has also that has also been shown to not be right correct.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:41

I mean even just going back to knee folds and marching and like uh I I used to say to my clients um sing to your baby sing yeah if you let your diaphragm if you're if you're worried about your poly floor and your diaphragm breathing coming back in and and coordinating sing and they would always say oh well I'm like it's your baby your baby is not going to complain. And everybody knows a lullaby or a uh you know has a favorite show tune or a favorite tune on the radio and just sing.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:13

Yeah um I love that idea because it is it it's like the diaphragm needs to also learn how to because one of the things you know that can happen towards the end is that um with the the ribs widening is the diaphragm can actually sort of take over this like stabilizing and so it loses its ability to fully function as a breathing and becomes a stabilizing situation which then implant in um influences your connection to the pelvic floor with breath, right? Because you're you know how postpartum uh sorry in late pregnancy one of the things that can happen is there's just the shallow breathing right where it's just like goes into scalenes and then sternocleidomastic just like take the over um and so rebringing it back um to the breath is always I feel like a a super essential thing. But just very simple stuff um where you also may be doing some simple myofascial release with the pinky ball, with um the the roller I would say where there the overambitious comes in postnatal is I think there's not enough awareness amongst a lot of Pilates trainers around prolapse. What the symptoms of prolapse are um also around diastasis. So I mean the deal is it at 35 weeks 100% of women have a diastasis. So that and because you have to because your rectus actually has to come into these two beautiful little half circles in order to make room for your belly to expand. So everybody postpartum also has a a diastasis of some kind and so what we really need to do is figure out like how do we gently bring that tone back and how do we reintegrate pelvic floor and core and that's also where posture and alignment become very important. So posture alignment and the essentials right and the essentials that's really what it is yeah and it's thinking about creating an atmosphere where you're resetting the nervous system. So like take if you have like super bright lights if there's any way like take the lights down. If you're teaching like a baby in me class and you have these like super bright lights that's probably not a really lovely atmosphere. Yeah take it down. Take it down so it's just a way of like coming back to using the breath and Pilates fundamentals to get people in the present moment in their body. Right which is which is mindfulness.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:42

Yes which is so is that why you say Pilates is pretty magical yeah is that that the premise behind that the premise behind that is that it's this incredible movement system that is so versatile it's so adaptable to so many different kinds of bodies and phases of life and people don't even realize the work that it's doing. You know how people start doing Pilates and then all of a sudden they'll come in like three weeks later and they'll be like oh I I'm sitting differently or I I have an awareness of how I'm I'm walking or it's easier to like get out of the car and um I mean I it's just I think he was way ahead of his time. And I think the people who helped him develop all of this work were really ahead of their time.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:32

So I confessed was the word I'm looking for I I that that um I I was diagnosed with an incompetent survey because I had two miscarriages.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:43

So um what would you say to someone in the beginning stages that has had a negative negative experiences like that and has fear yeah and what would you say to someone who Is coming through the experience and and is low is is is feeling like they might be might be depressed.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:11

Well, I think to to someone you know who's had and it's very miscarriages are are very common. I mean we again it's one of those things we don't really know the statistics of, but I think what we do know is that fear affects how we breathe and how we move, right? The sort of physical manifestation of fear is that we close in on ourselves, right? Like everything sort of starts to grip, we start to get a little smaller. So I feel like something to somebody who, for instance, has had several miscarriages is like reassuring them that Pilates can be a very gentle way of moving through your pregnancy and it can be very safe. And it um teaching them to sort of slowly start to trust in small, small steps, which then leads to feeling hopefully getting them to move out of fear and feeling more physically empowered and trusting their own body, which is really hard if you've had two miscarriages and you've had like a circlage, right? Because you're there is something that's like not functioning correctly in your body.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:23

I remember feeling um broken is not the right word, but I remember feeling a lot of I can't. Um, and the I can't followed me through the pregnancy, right? Um, like in terms of when you speak empowerment, um how how how could you take somebody who is in that state of, well, well, you know, if I do this, some horrible thing could happen. Um how do you develop that trust?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:00

Well, I think one of them is obviously you want to make sure, like for somebody who has had multiple miscarriages, that they do have the go-ahead from their medical practitioner saying it's safe to exercise. That would be really important, like if I'm doing a screening with someone. And then it's um, I think just taking them very slowly through the the building blocks of uh getting them to start to trust their own own body through movement. So you just build, you know, it's it's again, you like start with the Pilates fundamentals and you build from there. Right. And um, and I think that that it's pretty powerful. I mean, where even the very simple things uh can really result in people like, okay, I did this one session and nothing, nothing bad happened. Right. And so then they come back and then you slowly it's it's very similar, I think, this as someone who's very new to Pilates, right? And you start with them and then you see what they can do, and then you add on, and you add on. And I think there is um something really beautiful also in the current cultural moment of distraction uh that we all, you know, I'm just as guilty of as anybody else, of having an hour, whether it's in a group class or a one-on-one, of being present in movement and with your breath. And I think Pilates, amongst other things, is gaining a new appreciation because people I think are are understanding that being in the present moment and moving, even if it's like for 50 minutes, is a gift. It's a gift, it's a powerful gift, it's a powerful gift, and that there's um just as sort of a little bit of an antidote to this thing of distraction. So I would say it's a lot about when you're dealing with somebody who has a lot of fear, we come back to breathing.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:13

And would you say that that same sort of thought process applies post-Yes?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:19

I think it totally. I mean, people with diastasis or prolapse are in the same situation where they are terrified, a lot of them, to move in because they don't know what is appropriate. What can I do? And like uh, you know, around prolapse and diastasis in both of those situations, the research has really changed. You know, in in diastasis, it used to be like, don't do any crunches, don't load, um, you know, be very limited. And through some of the work of Diane Lee and also the some other people where they've actually started to go in and like do sonographic research and stuff. Now we know it's actually the opposite is true. I mean, similar to people getting a joint replacement, whether it's a knee or hip, they have you walking up that little staircase, you know, like two hours after you've had your surgery. That there's also that the, for instance, the linea alba and the the center line, if you never load it, it's not going to understand how to create tension. Um, so again, it's that thing of where we obviously want to watch that there's not excessive doming or cratering, but that if you don't load it, it can't actually learn how to retrain itself. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:32

Yeah. Fantastic. Um tell me one common pregnancy symptom you wish they did more research on. That's there's so many, Joy. I think I well, because the research, the research has evolved. So it a lot of it feels new.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:54

A lot of it feels new. I feel like maybe this is a cop out of an answer, but what I would really love to do, and I'm actually hoping that maybe at some point I can connect to some of these people who are doing research, is to actually track how Pilates works in dealing with some of these common symptoms that we see. Because there's not really, I don't see that out there. Like to actually have um some studies around, you know, SI joint pain, pelvic girdle pain, pubic sympasis pain. Um like if somebody were to do a Pilates program, it would be really fascinating to see the data on what are those outcomes, and then also linking that to postpartum and linking that to the birth experience. Sorry, I don't, I can't just pick one.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:50

No, I think that's I think you that was not a cop-out. I think that was a very good answer. Okay, rapid fire questions. Okay. What is your definition of Pilates?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:01

Uh, it is a movement and breath language that will make your life better.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:10

What is your favorite piece of Pilates equipment, big or small, and why?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:16

I'm a Libra, I can never make a decision. I would choose between the arc and the springboard. Why? Springboard I recommend to my clients all the time who are really like their gung-ho on wanting to buy a reformer. And I'm like, for a I understand, but I was like, there's also so many people who buy a reformer, and then it ends up just like standing in the corner as a piece of furniture. Whereas I feel like the springboard is uh it's very, it's economical, it's so versatile, it doesn't take up a lot of space, and you can do so many things with it.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:56

What's one misunderstanding about either Pilates or our profession that you wish more people understood?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:04

That Pilates is really for everybody, everybody. It's not just like tiny 20-year-olds and matching crop tops on Instagram. Um that it's really versatile for all populations. I mean, we've been spending the whole hour talking about women, but there's a whole world of like Pilates for men that I also think is incredible. But it that it's really for everybody and that it will meet you where you are at whatever physical stage of life you're at.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:38

Uh I I am into that. Um, uh, what's one habit that you do for yourself uh that compli that complements your Pilates practice that you would recommend?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:54

I swim. Uh I feel like it's a really wonderful compliment to to Pilates. And it for me personally, I'm a water baby, so um it keeps me sane.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:08

Uh books or podcasts you would recommend to our listeners. And I personally am looking forward to the the link, the uh the attached link with all the resources. So many.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:19

Uh so I would say I've mentioned her name before. Michelle Lyons has a uh her podcast is celebrate uh Mollybrity, which means celebrate womanhood. So she interviews lots of really, really interesting people. Um it's pelvic health focused, but it's also sort of biomechanics and people who are in the field doing research. And she's a total data nerd. Umunds like my kind of person. Yeah, you would really like Michelle Lions. She's awesome. Um, Granier Donnelly, um, she at your cervix is the name of the podcast. Love it, which I thought you would appreciate the name. Uh I wonder if vagina dialogues is taken.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:00

Maybe we could do that one.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:01

I think we should do that one.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:03

Okay, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:03

Uh speaking of vagina dialogues, I think um Jen Gunter's Vagenda Substack is really interesting. She's another super data-driven person in terms of the science out there around all things women's health. Um those are probably like the three off the top. And then I think um Jennifer Gianni, you know, just wrote that great new book that has just come out that I know you guys are selling, which I think is so full of like really great material. It's very detailed. She kind of talks about a lot of the things that we've touched on. And um, I think that that is a it's a great idea. Yeah, that's a must-read for for Pilates instructors for sure. Yeah. It's just very thorough. Um, and then those would sort of be probably my. I also really enjoy in terms of visual. If you're looking for visual, beautiful images, are any of Blandine Calais German's books like The Female Pelvis and The Pelvis in Birth. It's just really pretty to look at.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:05

I haven't seen the pelvis in birth. I'm gonna grab that. Okay. Um, before we conclude, where can our listeners find you?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:14

Well, I'm kind of a little bit of a crone when it comes to social media. I do have handles. I'm not on there very much, but I have handles, but I yeah, yeah. So it's Prego Pilates on Instagram, uh-huh. It's Prego Pilates on Facebook, and then prego Pilates.com is my website. So I would say my website, if you're interested in like teacher trainings, mentorship, or coming to observe classes, if you're ever in the Bay Area, that's probably the first point of reference that I would send people to. Um, or if you want to come to France, I'm doing a retreat, you can do that too. Provence next year. I was joking with uh Irma next year. It's Pilates in Paradise 2027 in in French Polynesia. So if you want to test out your core on a stand-up paddle board in beautiful waters. Um, but yeah, San Francisco is where I'm based. Uh, and so that's where you can, that's where you can find me. And I love chatting with people about just like with you, about all things Pilates and women's health.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:14

Oh, fantastic. Stephanie Forrester, thank you so much for joining us. This has been very insightful and informational. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:21

Thank you for having me. I'm super uh excited and grateful that I got to talk about things that I'm very passionate about.