SPEAKER_00 0:10

Hello and welcome to Pilates Perspectives. Today we have Leah Grant to talk about how exercise can spark creativity. But first, let's check in. So today I asked you to think about creativity. And when I say creativity, what comes to mind? Do you think of a specific experience, a person, or a feeling that sparks that creativity? Regardless of what just came to mind, I want you to hold on to that. And if nothing comes up, then I want you to take a second to think about what might inspire that creativity inside of you. Either way, hold that proverbial space in your brain and use it to spark your creativity going forward. You know, when I think of creativity, I often wonder what exactly is it? Is it seeing others express themselves? Is it connecting with other people? For me, it's quiet reflection, that space early in the morning when everybody is still sleeping and the house is quiet and my brain gets to expand. Let's take a few breaths now and let's think about creativity and creativity in your mind, in your space, in your world. And how often do you get to be creative in your day-to-day life? What does that creative space look like? Does it have a smell? Does it have a feeling? Does it have a taste? As you continue to listen to this podcast and you go on with your life, I can I challenge you to take a few minutes each day to create something as small or as large as your energy allows for. Just one thing, and for nobody's approval but your own, for nobody's expectations but your own. But just create something new. All right. Today we have Leah Grant, NCPT instructor and educator for Pure Movement Pilates Studio in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Known for her empathetic and self-aware approach, Leah infuses a profound respect for the interconnectedness of the body and mind into her teaching. As a lifelong learner, mover, and classically trained photographer, Leah comes to us with a level of ingenuity and imagination that I'm so excited to share with all of you. So let's welcome Leah. Welcome Leah Grant. Today we are going to talk about how exercise boosts creativity. I love this topic. So I'm already gonna, I'm already gonna be off book a little bit. My first question for you is how how does exercise boost creativity?

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Well, I um don't know an exact science behind it, but I perceive in my body that exercise induces a flow state. Um, especially in certain movement modalities that have more of a repetitive motion if you get into a muscle rhythm. There seems to be then um a release in in that of like any kind of ruminating or bearing down or or f overfixating on something. And so at least the way I feel it in the body is not quite so much cathartic as like a cleanse, like a wash. Oh, sweet. Like it just it's sort of like a spring rain and it kind of pushes out the sludge, and so you've got that nice clean, babbling brook feeling of just like crystal clear thoughts. It's like a reset. Yes. Yeah, lovely.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

Yeah. Um, did you have that in your first Pilates? Like, did you feel that in your first Pilates session? What was that like for you, your first um the first time you experienced Pilates?

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Well, the first time I experienced Pilates, I was a student at university and it was at the Rec Center. And it was a mat class, and I didn't like it at all, actually. Oh, interesting. I just remember the side leg series, and you know, your butt's on fire. Yes. Um uh yeah, I I don't think I grasped it in that sense. A lot of my initial movement comes more from cardiovascular. I did dance as a child and soccer and running, and so some of that feeling. Um, and I think as it relates to that flow state in Pilates, there is a certain amount of m mastery you need over the movement first, and then that just starts to come and that starts to flow.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Then I think so, almost like the the body needs to sort of find and it's it's sort of like like the motor learning has to have happened and the body finds itself, yeah, its rhythm. I think so. Yeah, yeah. Well, I I mean I could totally relate to that. I remember this is back in the days of running, right? Um, but I I remember being around the track, and when people would say the zone, the zone, and I would always think, I don't know what they're talking about. As I'm like, but then as you got better at it, yeah, right, like there would be this moment where like you pick your head up and like you you see the trees and yeah, you see the day, you feel the sun. And it lets the sort of opens the door to curiosity.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

And I think the same way in Pilates, you're I like that first math class, I was so overwhelmed. I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. What is this I'm feeling? And then you get in. Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

So you were too overwhelmed to really be creative.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Oh my gosh. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

There was no getting into the flow. No. There was just like like dropping your leg and pounding your bum and the way that you do. Yes, exactly. Yes. Yes. That's great. What um what led you down the instructor path?

SPEAKER_01 6:01

So interestingly, at the same rec, so at the same at university, I took an 8 a.m. It happened to be a yoga class, but I actually would schedule my entire academic courses around taking this 8 a.m. Tuesdays and Thursdays. And fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

So wait, you went to a you went to a third, oh well, it's Thursday. Thursday in university is still a hopping day. If it was 8 a.m. on Friday. 8 a.m. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

Yeah. But you kind of hit a little bit, is it was me and a lot of the community's retirees, and it was a really different demographic.

SPEAKER_02 6:37

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

And I loved the instructor, but she would always infuse right in the middle of the flow a more um Pilates-inspired abdominal series. So, like your series of five or your um hundred to help counterbalance all of that extension. But I, as I was leaving, I remember like very last minute looking up, wait a minute, I need to know, I need this, I need to take this with me. And um and then it wasn't until actually several years later I found myself in between jobs and and a wash kind of and realizing that I I wanted that community again. And so I actually think I kind of stumbled into Pilates, but it was the early experiences of creating a community of showing up together and supporting each other through movement, and and that's what I was looking for, and that's what I think, you know, that's what I think the movement can do is bring more people together in that flow state and to share those experiences.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

Um that community piece is really interesting. We've spent a lot of time and had some podcasts focusing on community, but um, as you talk about it, it makes me think that um even just having that community element is ripe for creativity. Yes, 100%. Yes. Um all right, so you went to Paris to study. Yes. Yeah, when was that?

SPEAKER_01 8:01

I I was very fortunate. My junior year, I was able to um study in Paris and I lived there for about seven months. Yeah. So I was studying there, and I also got a summer internship there at the Kendinsky Library at the Pompidou Center, which was really fun. I stayed actually as long as I could until my student visa expired and I was forced to come home.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

Well, uh you've been quoted as saying it's your true birthplace. What does that mean?

SPEAKER_01 8:30

Um, I like to think I like cut my teeth living in Paris, kind of figuring out who I was, who I am, what I like. Um I was in a constant state, I think, of challenge, but also feeling flow. I think I produced some of the best work in my artistic career. I was incredibly lonely, but also really fulfilled and always sort of open. And so I think sometimes I compare a lot of experiences I later that I've been having as to that same feeling of that dynamic being challenged, but then being receptive, being molded, and also growing into identity and sense of self. So I just like I love France. I don't know how I got or when I got the bug that I really like France, but I go back whenever I can. I love French. I I do. So I was taking French lessons, I was communicating in French, my internship was in French, and I really love um the way I can feel my brain flex and extend in trying to process language. And it so talk about another fluid thing.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

So you want to talk about another fluid thing. Yes, yeah, absolutely. And so I love all of the feels. Yeah, absolutely. Uh so you were studying fine arts. Uh you're you're a photographer by trade. By art trade? Yes, I know. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:57

If I if we zoom out.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

Did you study photography? Yes. So if I feel like if we zoom out a little bit, yeah. So the I have a bachelor in fine arts with a concentration in photography, which means that I studied 2D and 3D courses, which range from drawing to sculpture, ceramics, graphics, painting, uh, printmaking, as well as photography. And each of those courses has like, you know, the 100, 200, 300, 400 level courses. And I just went the farthest in photography, but I had a comprehensive education in all of them and art history, right? And um, and and and at the time, the university that I went to, um, Miami University had the Miami plan, which also still required me to get a what they considered helped to get a liberal arts education. So I took French, I took math, I took geology, I took botany, I took so so just getting all of that. Wow. So I I mean, I loved my education. I loved it. Um I want to go back and be a student again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

Um, so so much of that, so in in so many ways, your creative brain was challenged, right? Oh, yeah. If you if you think about it through the lens of the different level clo courses you were you were just describing. Um, and and you said the word open, like you were just open.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

Yeah. And I so I specifically actually chose Miami University because it had the Miami plan, and I knew I wanted a liberal arts education, but I also knew that I wanted a BFA. Yeah. Like, and so I didn't want to give up the challenge. I ended up like studying linguistics, and that layered on really well with my Latin and my French, right? But then that also further influenced the way I perceive art to express language. Like how, how, how does that language interact then with movement or with visual or with, you know, and travel. So yeah, it just all overlays a lot. So, how would you define creativity? So I think creativity is when you take any experience that might be common or that might be a part of your community, your culture, your what is real to you, you take it, you mold it, you reshape it, and then you give it back. You offer it, you've made something, but it's a commonality. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. But you've you've created something new, you've elaborated, you've collaborated, maybe, right? And you've shared.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

So as an instructor, where does that show up in your instructor world?

SPEAKER_01 12:27

Oh, well, you're always reading the body in front of you. Right. Right. I mean, you're you're not just dictating. No, it's such a collaboration. And and and I'd like to believe then in that sense, the individual walks out with the piece of artwork that they just, you know, purchased, quote unquote. But I benefit so much from having collaborated with them and creating that together.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Yeah. You know, it's funny this morning, uh, and I think I came right on uh right at the perfect time for this conversation. I got a text message from somebody saying, Oh, I'm writing an article and I'm trying to express the difference between learning an exercise and learning to teach.

SPEAKER_02 13:04

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

And and as you talk about creativity in this way, uh it's it it strikes me that that's kind of the conversation. Everybody can learn the recipe of an exercise, but it's the art of teaching. It's that taking that commonality, molding it, reshaping it, and giving an offering that that defines the teacher in many ways. Yeah, that's lovely. Uh that's that's that's fantastic. Um in in sort of this transition into instructor, um, what what do you think in terms of your creative life that you've you've brought with you?

SPEAKER_01 13:46

So as an artist, you are often given a prompt. Um like when in a school setting, let's use, for example, um capturing reflective light. So that might be your assignment, let's say. And then you are going to interpret that and mold it and shape it in whatever medium perhaps you like. Um, like like I said, I studied painting, printmaking, photography, anything like that. And and you always start with like a warming up or uh building the skills. Oh, okay. And you establish that. And then you look at it and you're like, I like what's going on over here. I'm gonna, I'm gonna go there, I'm gonna reshape that, I'm gonna mold that. Yep. So you're starting to create more intention, and then you really push and you start to get more feedback from what you're doing. You start, you get in a flow state, you really like it, and you you really just start to then move deeper into understanding your skills, how did the muscle memory in your hand, if you know, if you're drawing or painting, um, you develop your own artistic style and you can see that in the finished piece. And um I realize now that I was approaching all my classes similarly in creating these what I called thematic sequences. Like I had I had a goal that I wanted, it was like a prompt. And sometimes it's like, you know, how are you feeling today? Oh, my low back hurts. All right, so there's my prompt. Yeah, we're off. Right? Exactly. Yep. So you start building within the class those, like you say, pulling the thread through. That was the prompt. I'm gonna take it through. So actually, when you introduced the movement arcs, when balanced body education introduced the movement arcs, I felt like, yes, yes, I'm fantastic. Yeah, I was like, that's the language. And now I can take that and I can help other teachers say, that's the exact same thing I did. And and look, this is just follow the thread. Like it, it's very exciting. So I'm really excited about that.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

Oh, I'm I'm excited that that that that came through for you because that is really what I was hoping would come out, right? Yeah. Yeah. So along those lines, like like like um, how much of creativity is is sort of preparation and laying down the skills, do you would you say?

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Oh, that's an interesting question. Because I I think of like all of us have a proclivity to be creative, meaning you take something that you experienced and you re-meld it, excuse me, and you remold it and you put it back out. Ask your question again.

SPEAKER_00 16:26

I'm not sure I can. I know. That's the problem with a post-menopausal brain. Oh, it's like if it's not right in front of me, I'm not sure. But uh so, so uh a prompt sets you down a path and you know you want to pull the threads through. How but you just said earlier, you know, that that you had a you know, sculpting 101 and a 201 and a 301. So you had to build the skills, you had to build the muscle memory. Um, how much of like that that creativity do you think rests on that foundation of skill building skills?

SPEAKER_01 17:02

So I I don't know of that much. I think building skills comes with the practice, uh-huh, right? The repetition. Yeah. And you could, in a sense, if I take it back to art and I think, okay, capture reflective light. And I have to what if I have to do that like seven times, right? It's still the same prompt. It's still I'm reinterpreting it. So the creativity has has it, it's the same creative prompt or it's the same thread, and I'm honing my skills in repetition and practice.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

You're honing your skills to repetition and practice. Yes. Yeah. Wow. That that also does relate back to training directly, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

Now, every time you train, right, your body is different. So you're manipulating the medium and you're continuing to adapt and learn how to Well, but how is that different than light?

SPEAKER_00 18:00

Are you ever truly in front of the same light at the same time?

SPEAKER_01 18:03

So every single time you practice capturing reflective light, the light is different. And every time you go and you practice mindful movement, it's a different practice.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Yeah. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

Um do you think do you think um the ability to imagine is is a trait that everybody has? Or or is that is it something that you build up over time?

SPEAKER_01 18:27

So I think that, yes, I think we can all get stronger at being imaginative and moving into creative spaces. Um, because there have been many times I've been teaching a class and I have used some kind of a visual or I have tried to creatively explain a complex concept. Right. And you you see the lights go off, right? You you recognize or go on. They go on, yes. Yeah, they go on, but not enough. Yeah, yeah. You they you watch your students the help. Sometimes they go off. Sometimes they've lost them. Yes, that that did that visualization have not helped. Yes, you're right. They go both ways, of course. But yes, so and I think that is that's just an individual that's come open and receptive to being more creative. And then they're just going into that space with you. And and there's some guiding and there's some supporting and prompting. So from a young age, some children are encouraged in their creativity, and so they grow up to be way more creative, maybe than than others. And so, um, but I think we all can continue to be more creative. I love that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

Um, so we can, we, we can, we, we can give permission for creativity.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

In so many ways. Yes, let's. Do you think we lose that imaginative side of ourselves as we get older?

SPEAKER_01 19:48

I yes, I do. And I think that's a good and a bad thing sometimes because we all become more f skilled at one thing, which is good, right? We need to kind of become proficient at something to go out and be constructive members of society and contribute, right? Yeah, yeah. Um and I think that's a good thing, but then like balancing that. It's always a balance, I think, of not being so narrow-minded, like so left-brained, you can't actually see what's right in front of you, right?

SPEAKER_00 20:17

Well, it's interesting when you said, you know, raise children to be creative and and but I don't know that we raise adults to be creative. Right. At some point we decide. At some point we say, oh, you've got to you've got to grow up here. You can't, you know, yeah chase that fancy, continue to chase the fancy. You've got to chase the, you know, the thing that's gonna put food on the table, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:36

That's where I think mindful movement and like the Pilates practice invites individuals to have that safe space to be open and creative. They can move into that flow state and feel like that stressor or that skill set that they need to hone. They don't have to worry about that. They can just allow their mind to wander, they can put new ideas together without feeling judgment. They can start to see, you know, visual parables and feel it in the body. So I think there are places where we can continue to be creative.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

Um, you know, that's that's so great. It's funny because I've often thought of Pilates or the Pilates environment or the movement environment as being adults at play. Um, and we just said, you know, children, we invite that creativity, but but um the mindful space, the mindful, you know, whether it's Pilates or yoga or or meditation, that the mindful space really does lend itself to the creative moments. Yeah. Right. And you put the movement and the mindfulness together. I I I often think that we might not be able to put words to what we teach all the time because it's a little bit of that magic, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 21:57

Yeah. And I think I I think teaching Pilates is such a creative space because, like you said, I don't always have the words for it, but I might be able to like circle around it with cues or descriptions. Uh-huh. And the body gets there. I just didn't verbalize it.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Yeah, interesting. But I think the body finds it. Um, how has your understanding of creativity changed over time?

SPEAKER_01 22:21

I think I have in some cases become more restricted, I suppose, in what I, you know, play and and actually physically create create. Um but I am I am very fulfilled in my teaching and my Pilates practice because I think that the Pilates uh realm is so creative. I it's a lot of people ask me, it's like, oh, do you miss photography? And and I I don't so much because I it was never necessarily, I think, about the act of taking a photo or physically the photography technical aspect of it. I was never a very technical artist. I was very playful. Um so I and if I had the the wrong, you know, waterbed for the developing, or if I had the wrong scale for the enlarger, I didn't, I didn't care. I was just like, well, this is what came out. Let's see what happens.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

You know, let's yeah. Do you think how much, you know, part of the one of the hallmarks of mindfulness is to be non-judgmental? How much of our own internal critic or judgment do you think impedes creativity?

SPEAKER_01 23:30

A lot. And I think then when you get like you talk about that age where suddenly we need to grow up, you know, that you're right, that like truncates it. It just ends it for some.

SPEAKER_00 23:43

Uh, how did photography, how does photography and Pilates like I've heard a lot of things about, you know, Pilates and Coffee, Pilates and Prosecco? I haven't heard Pilates in photography. So, so uh like uh how did your photography background impact either your choices to become a Pilates instructor or in the Pilates space, how you how you are in the Pilates space?

SPEAKER_01 24:07

Well, the the studying in fine arts and the act of using visual to tell a story to signific to convey significance or a meaning or a message. I I think I'm doing the same thing as I work with people's bodies. I want them to realize something about their physical self. I I want them to feel empowered. So I'm I'm going to take them on a mindful journey. I'm going to start small and we'll build that together. And so I I feel it's very important for me to impress upon them not just what that outward appearance looks like, but what what the significance of their mindful journey is. And I always felt that way with art and not specifically photography, but when you put up a piece, you know, at the end of your, you know, let's say junior thesis, it's like you you made it, but you don't really have ownership of it anymore because the viewer is gonna go on a journey by themselves.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

Right. They're gonna see in it what they see in it, not necessarily you can make the offering. Right? Yes. Oh, interesting. Yeah. So you um geez, that's really interesting. So do you see like like a session as a story, as a as an opportunity to tell uh uh tell a story or give an experience?

SPEAKER_01 25:29

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

Yeah, I do.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

I I think every single time, yes, what is it that I'm hoping that I can convey to these students, this person, this friend, this partner, and help them because I want them to find it. And and like I like that creativity. I can mold it, I can reshape it, but I'm giving it back to them for them to carry and decide to value or not value, right? Come back or and hopefully that empowers them because they've learned something.

SPEAKER_00 26:02

Uh how do you empower a new instructor to to be emboldened by their creative, their creative voice?

SPEAKER_01 26:12

I think I think when I'm listening to new instructors as they're coming through sort of the education, it's fabulous to hear what cues resonate with them that they picked up through through learning, through practicing, and now they're relaying. And I think to encourage them to take those cues. Not like nobody can like hold a cue like it's their own. Like take it. And then again, that's they're reshaping it, they're remolding it to apply it at a different point than I might have, right? Or to see the value of the exercise differently than I might have. And that's a wonderful interpretation of it.

SPEAKER_00 26:56

Gosh, and that's just goes back to what you just said when you said, you know, when you put up a piece of art, it's it's actually almost like you have to let it go. It's no longer your own, right? It's uh uh it's an expression of you, but others are gonna take from it what they can take from it or what they see. Yeah, yeah. It's the same thing with a really good session, isn't it? Yeah. I'm always um struck by how felt cues can be so can be experienced so differently. And in a way, it's the individual's creative process, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 27:30

Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. I I'm not a very hands-on teacher. And personally, I think that's because that's that creative process of interpreting what I just said, molding it, shaping it, manifesting it in the body. Right, right. Right. That's their that's how they feel the cue.

SPEAKER_00 27:48

That's how they feel the cue. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's not this this is not what I think you're going to feel. It's what you feel and take away. Yeah. Um, do you think people have misconceptions around creative expression and exercise?

SPEAKER_01 28:02

Unfortunately, probably, yes. I think they see them as like black and white are two different things.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

Uh-huh. Oh, two different things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Yeah. Like, meaning like they don't, they don't overlap. But I guess I would argue that anybody who's exercised who has been in that flow state, that is what that is, right? Like, if they, if maybe they felt equally empowered to recognize it as feeling creative, that's the same feeling.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

All right. So do you have a like a something that's come to you in in sort of that flow state where where you've you've made some choices for yourself through? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

So I would, I would, I feel like it's always afterwards. It's after. Yeah. Right. So you finish and you're like, ah, and you're like, and then everything just is like, you know exactly what you're gonna do, you know how you're gonna do it, you just feel motivated too, like in terms of like sustaining your passions, like finding those flow states allow you to not burn out.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

Like well, uh, but you know, so you as you talk, all I could think about is how important it is for uh anyone who is a practitioner of any kind, whether it's movement or therapy or where you're where you're you're in somebody else's story and you're making offerings, but how important it is to take time for yourself to find that flow state, right? Because boy, that burnout is a real thing.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

Well, I actually I've I've always thought, Joy, you must have a really solid like home foundation or really good, strong sense of self because your energy that you bring all the time to everything, like the creative, the creative flow, I I think she's my family, my my family, my two year. But that doesn't mean there aren't challenges there. But like that foundation that you build for yourself in quiet moments or in relationships that you know are secure or in a strong sense of self. Like I guess going way back, I felt like even though my time abroad was really challenging, right, it built a strong sense of self.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

Yes. And then that allows you to to move into those flow states or to move through the challenge states, you know, uh and um still be producing or still having that good output of Yeah, you know, you know, uh creativity, it it is an interesting thing, and uh in that regard is is okay. So our producer is a musician. And when she talks about music, I could see her drop into a real sense of like trusting this thing that I'm totally creative about. Yeah, right. Um, you sort of you alluded to that with your photography, right? You put you put up the work and you just have this trust, right? Yeah, yeah. That that that that your offering will be received. It's the same thing um for me in front of a classroom, yeah, right, like or in front of teachers. It's just it's like it's the the all the other stuff just goes away because there's this again thread, but that thread is really like a like a um what were the words you just used in?

SPEAKER_01 31:20

I call it thematic sequence.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

Yeah, like yeah, like it was just like this this this confidence that that okay, I'm I'm gonna make this offering and it's it's gonna land in different ways for other people, right? Like it it's it's an interesting, it's interesting, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 31:37

Yeah, very much so, and in incredibly unique, right? I mean it it's it's yours is your creative process and how you identify and that sense of self in order to to be creative out there in the world is entirely different from mine.

SPEAKER_00 31:53

And yeah, yeah. I well, I'm I'm having a moment for everybody who's listening. I just think it's because creativity isn't something you can touch or feel, it isn't something you are, but it's woven into the fabric of who you are.

SPEAKER_01 32:15

And I think too, it ebbs and flow. So it ebbs and flows. So yes, sometimes we feel really creative, and that is so much of our identity, and then sometimes maybe less so, and we're feeling tired or burnt out, or we're uh confused, right?

SPEAKER_00 32:32

But it yes, it's it's never one thing. All right. So how do you continue to show up in the in those creative spaces for yourself?

SPEAKER_01 32:42

Um I think I I think I balance it pretty well with that sense of self we're talking about, like what gives me reassurance, my relationship, my husband, where we live, knowing I'm why I'm where I want to be. I feel very strong foundation. Yes, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then that opens that opens it up for me to then take risks or or try other things that are new, either in teaching or taking on a new challenge, or um being open and receptive to other forms of inspiration that someone else might share, like a different movement modality. Um, I I still very much like to run, um, hike, swim, you know, bike, all the different activities that then I'm I might be doing something there. And it's like, oh, this translates, you know. It's like, oh yes, this is this is the same thing. So starting to see those parallels, being open to them. All right.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

If someone were to say to you, I feel like I'm in such a rut, I just don't have that sort of creative vibe or spirit. Um, what would you what would you what would you say to them? What would what would be the way in which you might want to help them?

SPEAKER_01 33:48

Well, I might ask if they if do they need a Pilates class? No. Right? Yeah. Right. Let someone else lead. Sometimes that's let someone else lead.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

Oh, that's great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:57

And it might not be in a movement modality, but I I think let let someone else lead. I um I had a so commutes aren't the same that they used to be so much anymore, especially in public transit because you have your phones and so you're constantly connected. But when when I was in university and you would go on the subway home, it was the dead zone, right? So I would journal or I would reflect or I would write.

SPEAKER_00 34:21

I well, I just want to tell you, and going back to music, I think that's what music does for us. We stop and we put our brain into something that's just sort of open and flowing. Yes, right? Yeah. Um, I would imagine drawing, sculpting, uh photography, much the same. I uh, you know, I what a shame you're not in a dark room anymore by yourself, right?

SPEAKER_01 34:41

With the waterbed and the when I yeah, when I finished, I didn't quite make the jump very well from darkroom photography to digital. It just didn't always quite produce the same look that I wanted. I and when I left university, so I didn't have an enlarger, I didn't have the chemicals, you know. So it just kind of and I I probably could have worked really hard, I suppose, if if that if I was dying to be a photographer, if I needed to be a photographer. But I I think so much more I feel compelled to tell a story and to guide people in helping them feel empowered to find their story and helping them to find their story, yeah. That's really I think what I wanted to do.

SPEAKER_00 35:23

Thank you to Balanced Body for making this episode possible. Physical therapists and rehab professionals around the world are bringing Pilates into clinical care, home health, and recovery-focused movement programs. Balanced Body is proud to support that network with equipment and education used in physical therapy clinics, hospital systems, and rehab facilities. If you're a clinician interested in adding Pilates to your practice, explore PT and rehab-focused equipment, training, and continuing education at Pilates.com. I love that you said those quiet spaces. I do think uh you walk into a studio, one of the first things you do is you take off your shoes, and someone asks you to breathe, they walk you over to a piece of equipment. Usually you start lying down, right? Yeah. And it it already sets the stage for that space. Yeah. Yeah. Even before you've done anything. Yeah. Um, along those lines, you've talked about quiet reading as a way to wind down. How do you think how important is it for creatives to balance out um expressive time, right? With receptive time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

Um, yeah, I it's interesting you say that too, because I think even uh in some um with some of the other instructors at our studio, I think they always usually just say, I go home and sit still for a while. Yeah. I think I've heard, you know, a lot of people say that. Um yes, it's it's just finding uh I consider myself like a private extrovert. Like I really need connection. I really need that sense of community and feelings like that I'm seen by somebody. It doesn't have to be by everybody, right? So I feel like I need that extroverted connection, but I tend to be a little bit more private. So it's sort of like when I'm comfortable or when I'm open to it. And so usually in teaching, I've had that wonderful connection with somebody, and I feel like we've really, you know, done good work together, and then I go home and I'm ready to be quiet. Yes. So I do um I walk outside. I'm very fortunate. Um, I live on seven acres of deciduous wood. Oh, fantastic. And we have um a little wood chip path that runs about half a mile along the property. And so I go on walks probably twice twice a day. Um, yeah, I'd sit and read. Um yeah, I uh just relax, find ways to be quiet.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

Yeah, you we we don't we don't have that in our world anymore, right? It's always an on, it's always a lot of like um things coming at you all the time. Um God, seven acres with a wood chip path sounds like a like a fantastic way to do that. Um what you know it's uh that that brings to mind also the the idea of how do you find the quiet spaces in today's world?

SPEAKER_01 38:27

Oh I don't know if I don't know how to answer that question. I think it's hard.

SPEAKER_00 38:31

You get a dark room.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Yeah, you start, yeah. Right. Yeah. Um I think you have to set up kind of boundaries like with the noise. So you I you know, it might start with you're not allowed to pick up your phone until after eight in the morning, and then you put it, you put it down at six or or something, you know, like to each their own. But I think you have to start setting those boundaries. Um and I I think I learned to do it. I'm also type one diabetic, and I think I learned to do it as I was navigating how to manage my diabetes because there were certain stressors that I I could physically see the result in my body. Oh, yeah. Not not everybody gets that window, you know, you know, but I could. And so I I knew pretty quickly then where my limits started to be and and what kind of lifestyle I needed to build for myself that balance, that activity, high demand with those, those, those moments or quiet days or whatever that might be to to not stress out, right?

SPEAKER_00 39:41

And to not spike or to ebb and you know, do you do you physiologically see the difference of like when when you're when you're in sort of flow state versus like anxiety state?

SPEAKER_01 39:53

Yes, yes, yes. I mean, layer on top of that hormones, you know, and just you know, all different kind of other factors, but yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 40:03

Um does your does your all right, what inspires you? Like full stop, like today, any day, what would inspire you? Like what are the things that are that that tap your curiosity? I think nature always does. Nature, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:17

I grew up hiking and camping and um exploring a lot. Um the best kept secret in the Midwest, I think, is Michigan. Northern Michigan. Um Northern Michigan. Yeah. So I used to summer at Interlocken Arts Camp. Um, so for five summers, I studied dance and ceramics and drawing and photography and painting. And I learned to sail there, and you were in the woods on a cabin, you know, and like, yeah, so I would be sitting. It's just a beautiful campus, and you're sitting amount around all these northern pine trees, and you're just hearing music everywhere coming out of every single practice room, and you're watching the water glistening. Coming out of practice rooms, right? Right.

SPEAKER_00 41:02

So it's imperfect music too, which is even better.

SPEAKER_01 41:05

Yeah, and you're just walking in between buildings to go to your next, you know, your next class. And um, yes, that always I always love being in nature.

SPEAKER_00 41:17

Um you know, you said uh you were an extrovert who's a private person. I always reverse it. I always think everybody, of course, thinks I'm an extrovert, but I I feel like like I'm in in like I have that extroverted exterior, but I'm really in inside, like always craving just just just that that moment. Yeah, yeah, that moment, that separation. And and nature is such a just just the visuals you gave, it's like uh it's I'm craving um coffee by the by the fire. Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah. Um is there one piece of advice that you would have for someone that would infuse just a little more um imagination or creative expression in their life?

SPEAKER_01 42:08

I would seek to find openness. Try to be receptive. Um, and for me, in moments of walking, that's I think when I'm finding that quietness being open. Um trying to be open, to be receptive. In example of a Pilates class, just one hour during that day, right? Yes, just whatever that might look like for everybody. Um, I know my brother-in-law actively um journals every morning. He wakes up giving himself enough time to sit and just free write, you know, things like that. What do you need to do to have a quiet moment? Again, probably setting up those boundaries, not to be distracted all the time. And I know for a lot of individuals, uh, that's a luxury.

SPEAKER_02 42:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

And that's why I think creativity or being open to like that imagination, it it will come and go because it always depends where you're at in life, whether you even have the freedom to do that.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

Whether you even have the freedom to do that.

SPEAKER_01 43:08

So I yeah, I totally get it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:11

Uh how could we be better in our spaces inviting in that um uh that that creativity into clients' lives?

SPEAKER_01 43:24

I think that I think that there's no right way to do Pilates. So allowing that magic between your client and the teacher to happen, see where it goes, but be open to their feedback. What are they telling you about their body? And then how does it inspire you to change how you're gonna approach what they're feeling? And then they're part of that dialogue and that collaboration, I think, to work together to put out a new piece of artwork.

SPEAKER_00 43:57

I think that's beautiful. Uh, how would you do that for a class? Environment?

SPEAKER_01 44:01

Oh, I think I well, my classes aren't always like super full, you know, like so. We have max eight reformers at my studio. So I I call them Marco Polo classes, right? It's like you're in the swimming pool. You need to make sure nobody's like everybody's still there, right? So I want feedback. So I'm always like, yeah, like how are you doing? Right. Like you didn't jump out of the pool and run away, right? So I yeah, that feedback, that dialogue. And then I know that, okay, that cue resonated. And if it didn't, that's on me. I had to change that because like I want to take them on that journey. I want that story. I want, I want to, you know, move through that together.

SPEAKER_00 44:38

You uh I let me see if you agree or disagree with this. Um, with with the the rise of classes, I I actually am enjoying the way in which you can tell a story. You could instead of using a class to just be a rote, I do this, this, this, this, and this, you actually going back to ARC, you can create a tableau for people. Yeah. Uh, you know, inside of which there could be six, you know, eight, sixteen, twenty people having having their own experience with it. Yes. But you're truly almost like it's that letting go moment again, like, okay, I'm gonna let this go. I'm gonna put up this piece of art. Yeah. And we're gonna, we're gonna see how this lands for for everyone. Yeah, absolutely. And of course, getting the feedback is super important. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:24

Yeah, because you're still reading, there's more of them, but you're still reading the room and you're still reading how their bodies are moving. And I just think back, that's another medium that I'm flexing and extending and manipulating, and I'm trying to get it to do something and for for it to have a transcendent experience, and and then they walk out. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

Right. Yeah. Um I I I often think that um um we spend so much time talking about the little details of the individual client that we forget that actually in those those environments we can also sort of be present as the creative, um, not just as the didactic. Yes absolutely. And that's exciting to me. Yeah. Like if if we can create like all of these beautiful spaces, creating these stories and these tableaus, that's a lovely, a lovely narrative.

SPEAKER_01 46:17

Well, think of I mean, how limiting and how eventual burnout it would be as a teacher if I do have to be so didactic. Right. That that's that I need I need to experience that artistic journey with them as well.

SPEAKER_00 46:29

That well, for many, I think that's what brought them to the work. Right. Right. Yeah. Is my is is in various flow state. Like I have had this experience and I want to share this like with you. Yes, exactly. Yeah. They had they had an empowering moment. Uh, I'll never forget my uh the the first Pilates I had on the equipment. Literally walked into somebody's house, went down into their basement. As we were walking up to the basement, I was like, I have no idea what just happened, but I think everything's gonna be okay. Yeah, you have to punch your butt out, you're like, I don't know what that just was. I don't know what that just was, but it oh my god, like I just see the world differently now. Um and and that's you know, it's it's funny, it's so hard for people to everybody wants to quantify it as like, well, it's it's when you do this thing or it's when you do that thing. But maybe it's when you do what you're just talking about. Maybe it's when you just let let that the creative come in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:28

Well, if I think back to the mediums I've worked with, like actually in art, like in watercolor, you can't you can't force it. It it will always kind of run and then you just start to move with it. Or like in clay, it always has a certain kiln temp. Like you can't push it necessarily, right? And like in etching baths, like there is science to it, but there's there's so much variability. And same with the body. I wonder if you're trying to force it, right? It's not the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 47:57

I was at a training yesterday, and um the um speaker was saying you don't ever want to push uh in this case they were talking about production, right? You don't ever want to push production. Um, you want actually to be pulled, like by a current, um, based on the need. Yeah. Yeah. And and that's that's pretty much what you're saying here is like like uh uh what I'm hearing you say is is as you move, as you allow yourself to be open, you're going to allow yourself to be pulled in by what you see or what you feel, or um uh and that's part of what opens up your mind.

SPEAKER_01 48:40

Yeah. And I think that's if we go back then to the beginning, of that's why repetition and practice is so important because you will be doing the same activities, but that pull, if you're open and receptive, you'll be pulled into different pathways, you'll be pulled into different awareness, right, into different creative flow. And like that's just the coolest thing. I think so. Yeah, that's great.

SPEAKER_00 49:04

That's so great. Um completely random question. That's all right. All right. Is Swan with the push-through bar still your favorite exercise?

SPEAKER_01 49:17

Um, yes. Although I feel like I've also recently started to explore more with the um roll-down bar, but I like swan on anything. Just about anything. Yes, because my body never really feels so alive as when I'm trying to do the swan. Oh, yeah, right. Right? It's just, yes, just it's just very hard, I think, for my body to do. And so I I work so hard to be present in the feeling. And it's like even now, I'm thinking of swan and I'm like lifting my chest and I'm like, yes, yes, I'm doing swan, yes. But um, it just requires so much conscious thought. And then at the same time, like I my body just lights up and and works in ways that I I always like need to remind myself to do it.

SPEAKER_00 50:05

Um, do you find a lot of creativity in the shapes that are in Pilates?

SPEAKER_01 50:10

I yes, and I would say it's the line that I'm following with my eye, that's always really fun to watch. So when you see the shapes that they're making, it's that kind of continued line that that you're not not everyone can put the feet on their head kind of thing, make an actual circle, but you can see it, right? You know, exactly. Um yes, yeah, but following the lines in the body is always so much fun. I love watching classes for that reason.

SPEAKER_00 50:39

Yeah. What's one of um totally putting you on the spot here, but sort of creative metaphorical cues around some of the lines? Like what what what what are ways in which you you try to like nurture people to see it for themselves?

SPEAKER_01 50:57

To me, um might be a little bit of a different way to answer, but I I always cue a little more energy in the body. Uh-huh. So to feel the line in its end spot, um, that's I think really important. Um uh because it's not out there, it's through there. Through there, yeah. Yep. Um, yep. And to to feel feel that energy of the line, I suppose I would say.

SPEAKER_00 51:25

So the energy of the line, uh, that doesn't differ at all from what's on the on the paper or what's sculpted or created by the hands, right? Right, right. You're still always looking for that sort of energetic expression.

SPEAKER_01 51:40

Yes, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

unknown 51:42

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 51:43

I'm getting really inspired. I feel like I want to go and work out right now. Um, but it's different. It's funny because it's a different inspiration than being inspired to like sweat for the sake of sweating or or you know, just you know, to get my workout in. It's like inspired really um to feel that feeling.

SPEAKER_01 52:03

Yeah, I think so. Yeah. That's the the mindfulness aspect, that's the present. You're being present in that practice, and then to feel the line, the expression, to feel the the artistic expression. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 52:15

Okay, so a couple of rapid fire questions. What is your definition of Pilates? Oh, I think it changes all the time.

SPEAKER_01 52:23

Um I'll say today.

SPEAKER_00 52:27

Uh I yes, I love that. Um what's your favorite piece of equipment?

SPEAKER_01 52:33

So I really like the Pilates arc. I I know Joseph Pilates made the chair to fit in everybody's apartments, but I think the Pilates arc on the arc is like fantastic. And you can everybody need spinal mobility and it feels so good. And yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:48

Do you have a favorite arc, like arc shapes? You know, there's the Clara, there's the Pilates Arc, there's the East Coast, there's the West Coast. Yeah. Yeah, the Pilates Arc is my favorite. Yeah, the slope of it. Yep, and the two different pieces. I really like to take those apart. So we know your favorite exercise is swan anywhere. Which I can do on the arc. Yes, you can do on the arc. Uh, what's your least favorite?

SPEAKER_01 53:12

Oh, my least favorite. Um, probably rollover on the reformer. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:21

Yeah, I can understand that. Yeah. Uh, what is one misunderstanding about either Pilates or the Pilates profession that you wish more people understood?

SPEAKER_01 53:32

Um this, I don't know, maybe you can speak to this a little bit, having been in the Pilates industry longer, where sometimes I find myself right now not wanting to share with people that I'm a Pilates instructor. Because I don't know if they will recognize how much work I've put into studying the body. Oh, but yeah, I understand. I understand. Right. I have taken anatomy at college level for figure drawing, right? I've taken anatomy for Pilates instruction.

SPEAKER_00 54:06

Oh my god, I would have loved to have done the anatomy with figure drawing.

SPEAKER_01 54:09

Well, that's the line through the body, right? So like yes, like how many different times I've studied the body and continue. And I so sometimes I don't want to share that I'm a Pilates instructor because I I'm afraid that they will think it's just like an online certain amount of hours. So do you and then know what's funny? And then that's like tested out. And I was like, no, I've done a lot of work.

SPEAKER_00 54:35

Like, yeah, yeah. But in the beginning, I wouldn't want to tell people I was a Pilates instructor because you know, in nobody, like nobody knew what it was, and they it it was like like, oh well, it's it was trivial. Yeah. And it feels like what you're saying to me now like is coming full of things. Well, that does seem that way, doesn't it? Oh, that's interesting. That's interesting. Yeah. Um, and then there was a period of time when when you know it it had a uh had a a a cachet to it. Yeah. So okay, so how do you what do you tell people?

SPEAKER_01 55:09

Well, um, so if it's hmm, yeah, I know. That was that was one of your first podcasts, wasn't it? It's like uh you're you're at a cocktail party. Yes, exactly. Yeah, you're at a cocktail party. Sometimes I say I'm a movement professional. Uh-huh. Um, sometimes I say I'm a Pilates instructor. Um, sometimes I say I help people's bodies feel better through movement. Um, and sometimes I just wow them with my anatomical comprehension, and then they look at me and like, wait, what do you do? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:45

And then I say, I'm a Pilates instructor. I I I was recently with my mother at a doctor's office and I was asking some questions. The doctor first started just answering my mother, sort of the way they answered, you know, they answer. Yes. Uh right. That's not a reflection on doctors, but my mother was asking questions and she was just giving her exactly feeding back. Yeah. And so then I would ask a question and she would look at me and she would answer, and then I would ask another question and she would look at me, and then finally she was like, What do you do? I was like, Well, then it's the opposite. I'm like, I'm a Pilates instructor.

SPEAKER_01 56:20

But that's exactly what I'm talking about. Like, yes, uh in some cases it's oversimplified, and I can keep up. You can talk about this stuff with me. We, you know, I can dialogue, you know, and then sometimes it's like, Well, I don't, I mean, not that much though, you know.

SPEAKER_00 56:35

So I'm gonna digress with your anatomy background. Um, do you find yourself leaning in on anatomy cues or um sort of artistic enrichment cues?

SPEAKER_01 56:46

Um I do both very much, actually. Um, I will say, so typically when I work with an introductory student, I will always tell them I use a lot of anatomical terms. If you don't know what I'm talking about, just tell me. So I think when I I feel like I I call it what it is in its anatomical reference, but then I will use much more descriptive and imaginative language to help them understand what is, I think, a rather like complex, you know, medical structure or clinical kind of way of assessing it, right? Um so then I like to think that I like let them know what how their body functions. What is it? What is that called? Like, so then like I don't know if they go to the doctor's office then and they can actually say a little bit about their hip function.

SPEAKER_00 57:35

My my Pilates instructor told me.

SPEAKER_01 57:37

Yeah, right. But like they that's a moment to learn. But then we can, yeah, then we can get a little bit more creative, I think, too.

SPEAKER_00 57:44

All right, what's one habit that you do regularly that complements your Pilates practice?

SPEAKER_01 57:51

Um, I think the other types of movement modality that I'm always practicing moving my body in different ways to see how that feels and to look at functional movement, right? I want to be able to do something else because I think Pilates serves so well in keeping people doing what they love.

SPEAKER_00 58:12

Which I know is not sexy on a card, but boy, what a great place to be in. Pilates helps you do everything you want to do longer, better, right? Yeah, yes, yeah. That that doesn't suck. Yeah. Um, okay. Do you have one to three books or podcasts that you would recommend to listeners?

SPEAKER_01 58:29

Um, well, we can start with podcasts because we're on a podcast, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 58:32

Right, right. Pilates perspectives. No kidding, that was joy.

SPEAKER_01 58:36

Um, I like podcasts a lot. And I the three that kind of come to mind actually, because they kind of segue also with creativity and explaining complex thoughts, you know, with with creativity, would be Philosophize This by Stephen West. He takes um philosophers, breaks down their very sort of, I think, complex uh observations of culture and society and life, and then tries to like help you understand it. And he I think does a really good job. I like um Hard Fork, which is New York Times' uh tech technology podcast. Oh, yeah. And I'm not a tech person, but I can keep up. So I think like, boy, they're doing a really good job of the thing. Exactly. That's what I'm that's what I'm saying. Good, good. And then the other one that my husband and I both like actually is um called If Books Could Kill. And it's kind of a really interesting concept because it kind of takes the top sellers, often it's it's several years back, and it it will the Michael and Peter read them and kind of evaluate whether or not this is good information and the fact that now they're a top seller and how many people have read them, and like they fact-checked all the books and they they review the books with a much finer tooth cone. Uh and kind of the whole idea if if books could kill.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:06

I mean, kind of like if this is the right kind of book that we want as a top seller that that kind of really segues nicely into what we're discussing here with like when does like creativity border on like I don't know, pseudoscience? Right, sure. You know?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:21

Yeah, yeah. And and your imagination is wonderful, but don't don't use it under the guise of artistic expression to rewrite the truth or a fact.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. It's it's it's an it's a it is an interesting concept, even when you were talking about like an anatomical structure. You have to learn to draw the structure, right? Yeah. And then from that comes you, you, you know, like now you can make the spine longer because it's more attractive.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:50

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:51

Or you can you can create the energy through the lines. You can create yes, but but um it's important to know the you know the facts, right? You have to learn again, learn those those baseline skills. Yeah. Um yeah. All right, so podcasts, fantastic. So so when you're walking in the woods, do you listen to podcasts? I do.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:08

Or sometimes audible because or I should say an audio book, whether I get it from the library. What are you listening to now? Anything? Yes, I just started Devils by Joe Abercrombie. I am I like epic fantasy and adventure. I'm with you. I mean, I grew up reading Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings, so I feel like it's just a great. And and in those worlds, an individual has taken a semblance of reality and reshaped it and molded it and given And created a whole new world.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:37

And then through that, it's a reflective opportunity to see, you know, how did they describe it? That is a new way to connect with reality. So yes, that's what I love.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:48

Oh, me too, me too. That's great. Um, do you ever get uh so into it that you kind of like you know, you you look up and you're like, I don't am I, do I know where I am?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:59

Yes, yes, yes. And actually there was I had um one procedure where I also had laughing gas, and to help with the pain, I also put my earbuds in. And I was, and so I remember after that, I was like, I really don't know where I am because I am so happy.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:16

Yes, yes, yeah. I don't know what world I'm in right now. Um all right, so before we close up, uh remember our topic today was how exercise boosts creativity. Um any sort of final thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:35

I yes, I do because I don't think exercise for the sake of um pushing yourself to extreme, you know, harder, better, faster, stronger, is always the same as finding that creative flow and that space. I think there are all different types of movements that afford that um feeling in the body that speaks to you in the moment, and you can take whatever form you want on any given day, right, to listen to your body, and that's how you can find that that ebb and that flow to help, you know, if you want to become more creative and you know, like it's not a right or wrong way to do it, and you just listen to your body and it it will lead you there.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:24

Fantastic. League Grant, so great to have you here. Um right, that's it for today.