SPEAKER_01 0:10

Hello and welcome to Pilates Perspectives. Today we have John Gary via Zoom to discuss Pilates for fitness and athletics. But first, let's check in. Sometimes we hold tension in our bodies that we're not even aware of. Let's take a moment to scan and release together to learn where our bodies are holding unnecessary tension. So to do that, let's take a moment to settle in. Let your body rest on the chair or whatever surface is beneath you and feel yourself supported by gravity. If it's safe and comfortable to do so, you may soften your gaze or even close your eyes. If you're unable to tense the muscles as we practice a progressive muscle release, simply bring awareness to each part of the body while you breathe. Okay, so let's begin, shall we? And we'll begin by bringing attention to your feet. Notice your toes, soles of the feet, heels, tops of the feet and ankles. Gently curl your toes and tense your foot muscles with an inhale and release as you exhale. Travel your focus up to your calves, shins, knees, quads, and hamstrings. While you inhale, gently tighten the muscles if they're not already. And with an exhale, release. Now let's bring your awareness to your core, to your belly, your low back, and the abdominal muscles. Notice are you already tense there? Now intentionally tighten those muscles. And inhale. And exhale to release. Traveling up. Let's look at your shoulders. Now lift your shoulders gently towards your ears. You might notice they might already be scrunched up a little bit. Take note of that. But lift them up, inhale, and feel the tension in your shoulders, neck and upper back. And as uncomfortable as that might feel, when you let them drop or release, notice how relaxed they are. As you release the muscles and allow the shoulders to melt down and away. Notice the difference. Focus now on your fingers, palms, and the tops of your hands. Notice your forearms and your upper arms. Can you tighten all those muscles and inhale? And then exhale and release. Let your hands open and your arms feel loose. One place many of us hold tension throughout the day is in our face and our jaw. I certainly know I do. First notice if you already carry tension here. Now inhale and just crunch up your face, your forehead, your eyes, your jaw, your mouth. And exhale and let your brow smooth, your jaw unclench, and your tongue rest. Imagine your facial muscles melting away like an ice cube left out in the warm sun. Now let's take one slow cleansing breath in through the nose. And exhale, sighing out through the mouth. Take a scan. Notice the difference between effort and ease. Is there any part of your body that feels more relaxed now? Did you notice a particular area you were already holding tension? Let your body settle and come into the present moment. Feeling supported, and calm. Okay, thank you for taking that time. Today we have John Gary joining us, a globally recognized Pilates educator, fitness expert, and founder of Pilates and Fitness TV and Pilates Grad School. You can learn more about John's work at Johngary.com or follow him on Instagram at JohnGarry. That's J O H N G A R E Y. Let's welcome John. Hello, welcome to Pilates Perspectives. I'm Joy and I'm here with John Gary. And today our topic is Pilates for fitness and athletics. John, welcome so much.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Thank you. I can't believe uh we're finally doing this. Thank you, Joy. I'm uh very honored to be on this podcast.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Yeah, it's great. I've been really looking forward to this conversation. Um, you know, fitness is really a hot topic in Pilates right now.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

Um, I feel uh old enough to say that I remember the days when Pilates was showing up at fitness conferences and waving its arms and saying, look over here. Um and now we don't have to do that anymore. So my my arms are less tired.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

Yeah, I remember those days well, like right, like 20, 30 years ago when we were um, you know, I would teach at the idea conference, which is was at the time the largest fitness conference in the US for sure. And um we really were, you know, jumping up and down and trying to get people to uh learn the word Pilates.

SPEAKER_01 6:21

Right. We were doing lots of math classes with lots of props to try to stimulate interest.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Uh and and suddenly everybody just left over that and went right into group reformer.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

They sure did, yeah. Uh, you know, I it I think, you know, I there are two things that can be true at the same time. Number one, this is fantastic because people are now you don't have to explain to them what the word Pilates means mostly. Uh they have heard it before, they might not know exactly what it is. Most of them now know it's not yoga, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Like yoga, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:05

So that's a big win.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

That's a big win, yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

Um, but you know, I think always with that comes the other side of it, which you know is um it gets so turned around and taught in in or not taught in you know, in so many ways that um I it people are confused about what is Pilates and what is reformer fitness, yes, and what is you know a studio session versus what is a group reformer class. And yeah, it's it's confusing to people, but that's why we're here.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Well, let's let's unpack some of that, shall we? Let's see if we can at the end of at the end of this chat, see if we can unpack a little bit of that so that when people search for the Pilates that's going to suit them best, they have an understanding of that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

Um, so I think what we should first start to do is introduce our audience to you uh and a little bit about your background. You have a varied background in fitness. Um tell everybody a little bit about that. And when did you first take interest in Pilates? What like what about Pilates stood out for you?

SPEAKER_00 8:33

So my introduction to Pilates was through a client that I was her personal trainer. Uh so I was already in the fitness world. I was actually at the idea conferences, but teaching what we used to call aerobics or step aerobics, um, which is now I remember renamed, rebranded to group fitness. And um I was oh my gosh, I'm really dating myself. I was competing in um aerobic competitions.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

So those oh you did the competitions, yes.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

I guess national aerobic championship.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

Oh, fantastic! I have all sorts of costumes in my head right now.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

Yep, and they will never be seen. Well, no, they're everywhere, right? They're uh, but yeah, so I it's free internet, it's pre-internet. Well, yeah, except the videos are yeah, I'm let's not go there because I'll just be having people will be YouTubeing. Uh so but because of that, I really wanted to improve my flexibility. I was really strong, but really, really tight, like not able to touch my toes kind of tight. And uh, if you've seen those crazy um uh routines, they require a lot of flexibility. People are jumping in the air and landing in a split and all kinds of all kinds of crazy things. So, my my client said there is this studio. I don't even know if she called it a studio, but they do something called Pilates, and I think that might really help you. I went to the studio, and of course, you know, you've heard this probably from back in the day at that experience a ton of times. You walk into this space, and there's medieval torture equipment, and uh I did my session and absolutely fell in love with it. Um doesn't take much so different, because it was very different from anything else I was doing. And uh I I did uh a trade with my teacher, uh my first teacher, Patrick O'Brien, in Chicago. I was living in Chicago at the time because I couldn't afford Pilates, so I would personally train him two times a week and he would do Pilates training with me two times a week, and that was my introduction to it. And I, you know, of course, did it originally for flexibility, but anybody who knows the system knows that that's really there's so much more to it, right? So, you know, I had that experience that a lot of people have. You walk in and there's this crazy equipment, and and I really did love it though. And so we were going back and forth. Uh, I was he wanted to gain muscle, so I was personally training Patrick, my first teacher, twice a week, and he was giving me Pilates sessions twice a week. So, because I otherwise I would not have been.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

So you did the you did the the good old-fashioned barter, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

Yeah. And what I found within a month, two months was that every other thing that I was doing, every other physical thing that I was doing, improved. Uh I was jumping higher, I was lifting more weights, I was obviously more flexible. Every single thing had changed, and the only thing I had changed was adding Pilates.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

You see, I I think that's key. And I I don't know how to make it sexy, like as a slogan, but that that Pilates creates a foundation that helps you do everything you choose to do better.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

You know, and you found that, huh?

SPEAKER_00 12:33

I it that was it sold me. It sold me. Uh so I hired Patrick. I was running the group fitness program for the sporting club down in downtown Chicago. And I hired Patrick to teach math classes. We were the first health club in the Chicago area to offer Pilates. This was back in '92, 1992. And uh so he taught math classes a couple times a week. And I was just getting everybody to go in and take that class uh because it was it it was just such to me, it was just a revelation. It was a revelation of one modality of fitness being able to affect so many others, and that's what I love about it. Uh, and and I I I think you're right, it's really hard to pinpoint. I think I know why, but you know, we need we need more research. We need more research that kind of helps us to not just define it ourselves, but to to be able to back it up.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

And I know a lot of people have done research on the core and and different things, and you know, it's kind of mixed. I I feel like there's I feel like there's something else that people don't focus on as much that I truly miss if I don't do regular Pilates sessions, and that is spinal movement in every direction.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

In all spinal movement, yeah, yeah, yeah. In every direction, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Isn't as I, you know, I've been in fitness forever, and there isn't really another modality that moves you through all of those ranges of motion, sometimes with assistance, sometimes with resistance, sometimes just on your own, so beautifully, and throughout an entire class, if you're following a Pilates regimen, you know, a kind of traditional, I'll call it traditional a Pilates routine, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:47

And it it builds sort of that strength across planes of motion, right? With a mobile spine, which is you want to talk about functional, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:58

Yeah, it's it's a balance, it creates this beautiful balance between mobility of the spine and stability of the spine. Yes, that to me is the is that's the secret sauce that I think is a still a secret to many people, you know. They uh they try to make Pilates be all of these other things when what it actually is, no one else is doing in any other modality. Strength training, it's all about not moving your spine.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Every almost every athletic sport, except for something like gymnastics or diving, even you know, you're not really moving your, you're trying to hold your spine steady, but Pilates makes you move your spine.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Well, so that goes back to your very first comment of people not knowing what Pilates is, um, and then sort of going into these spaces. And and I I I'm gonna confess something, my big fear in the fitness space is because it's it it is hard to pinpoint, that we're getting a lot of, well, let me do what I do on the gym floor on the reformer. But if you're just gonna use the reformer for a bicep curl, you're missing the secret sauce.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

So, so how do we how do we keep the Pilates without being dogmatic, right? Uh, keep the Pilates in that group space. Um, and then on the Pilates side, I think there's some like ways in which we could enrich the the fitness knowledge or the fitness uh training or teaching so that it can be incorporated. Uh, you know, it's already in the Pilates, but it could be more specifically called out. Does that make sense to you?

SPEAKER_00 16:47

It totally makes sense. And I I think you I think what you just said is is so important and necessary, which is let's add, I know there's so much in the curriculum already in a in a fully well-versed Pilates program, but I think it's important to add what strength training is. How do you gain strength? So that Pilates instructors understand that strength training, strength gains may not be best found through a a what we would call a traditional Pilates workout. I'm not saying it doesn't improve strength, it's just not the most efficient way to do it if you're working with somebody who wants to.

SPEAKER_01 17:37

If that's all you want.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

Yeah, if that's all you want. Right. But if you want to make that strength training that you're gonna do better, incorporate Pilates into your routine.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Right, right. Woof, there's a there's a lot there, there's a lot there to unpack, right? Um, hey John, um, for you, it sounds like fitness has been a part of your life for a long time. Uh what was your relationship to exercise growing up? Uh so I and how has it changed over time?

SPEAKER_00 18:13

I don't I don't think the root of it has changed. I have been like just I geek out over uh physical fitness, and I was never a team sports kind of person. My I was drawn to cross country, you know, um gymnastics, swimming, things that were basically a an individual sport. Though I liked challenging myself and challenging my body. Uh, my dad bought me my first set of weights when I was 12. They were the plastic ones that were filled with sand.

SPEAKER_01 18:51

I don't I remember those. Yes, I do.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

They were a really pretty gray. And uh and that was a really I couldn't, I was so excited about that. And you know, I so I started strength training back then. And you know, when I went to junior high, now we're talking, I went to I was in junior high in the 70s, right? Early 70s. Uh there we had um, you know, a universal machine, right? It's the one machine does everything, it had leg press, it had everything. Um, and so I, you know, I could press the entire stack with my legs.

SPEAKER_02 19:30

Very impressive.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

My legs have always been the strongest part of of my body.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 19:37

And uh yeah, so I loved it and I I loved all things kind of fitness. And um, but that's not, you know, when I did my aptitude test or whatever it is that tells you what you should be doing, it was something involving math.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

That's really I I promise you that wasn't mine.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

Well, I started in computer science and realized after my first year of college that that was really not the direction I needed to be going in. I I it was just so incredibly boring. Um, for in at the time it wasn't like it is now.

unknown 20:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

Um, so so yeah, so then I changed to uh uh sociology, individual human development, um, but uh sociology, and and that's um what I thought I was gonna do. I I thought I was gonna be in higher ed administration. Um, I was an RA in college and then I thought Oh my god, me too. Awesome, right? Such a fun job. I thought it was it was so fun.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

It was it was fantastic. The occasional, like, you know, sitting on the keg while waiting for everybody to disperse was a little bit challenging on occasions. But yes, I would say if you want a lesson in human behavior in RA college, fantastic for resources.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I I I mean I loved it. And when I got out, I I um got a job as a residence hall director.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

Oh my god, so did I. I thought I could.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

Where were you? Where were what school?

SPEAKER_01 21:18

Um, I was at a small liberal arts school in Westchester County, Manhattanville, and then I started to work for Pace. I went to work for Pace University full-time. Wow. And I was the student, the director of student life at one point. Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

Oh my goodness. Okay, so I was at Fordham University in the Bronx.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

Oh okay. For those of you who don't know, Pace and Fordham are like sister schools, cousins that are also kind of in competition with each other. Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

And then I and then I went to NYU and I was the assistant director of student activities.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

I was downtown at the Pace University in New York City. So our paths definitely have have crossed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

Oh, that's that is that's incredible. That's incredible. Uh but while I I don't know about you, but once I started doing that, I realized very quickly that I no longer liked college students.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

It is a particular demographic, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

It was great while I was one, but then it was not great anymore. Uh and so I was looking for something else to do. And one of the people that I had to work with a lot uh was the athletic director. And she said, Hey, there's this new thing, corporate fitness. Um, and we happen to have a master's program in physical education that's specific toward adult uh fitness.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

Oh, great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

So that's what I did. And then I worked, uh, did my internship at American Express down at the World Trade Center, and then I got a job at Pain Weber in their operations center.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

Uh this is you're you're you're making me homesick, right? Because this is all the places where yes, my footsteps have like like walked around and looked for good eating spots, and yeah, uh that's great. Wow. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 23:09

And to get that job, I had to teach group fitness. Uh-huh. So I had never I did I, but I knew music because I took piano lessons when I was a kid and I was in the band and all of all of that kind of stuff. So I knew, you know, I knew an eight count, I knew how to, so it was not that hard for me to to learn how to at least do really basic stuff. And then I fell in love with that, absolutely fell in love with it, and got my first job in kind of commercial fitness at Molly Fox Studios in New York, my first teaching gig. Great. And yeah, and then that led to becoming the director and moving to Chicago, and that's when I found Pilates, and here I am. So it's always, always been a part of my life.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

So, so uh you when you were younger, right? And you were involved in athletics and you like sort of that idea of solo sports, it's really kind of interesting. You did solo sports, but you went into the performing, you know, uh aspect.

SPEAKER_00 24:09

Performing though, as the leader. Uh yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

So uh that's that's really sort of an interesting little twist. But um uh so uh that performance aspect is there's a there's a lot of athletic training that's involved. How would you define the word athlete? Like what does what is if somebody said an athlete, what does that mean to you? I'm training an athlete.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

I think you you know what I what I love about working with athletes, and I've had the pleasure of working with athletes um over the years, is that it is what they are really skilled at is very specific. And everything else, they're typically like a fish out of water. So for example, I worked with a guy from who was in Cirque du Soleil, and he was super flexible for he was in O, and he was super flexible, he was a diver in one way, but very much not flexible in other ways, like very tight. And sometimes that's for certain sports, that's necessary in order for you to be able to do one thing, another thing has to be the opposite, right? And so you I think for me, an athlete has a very specific set of physical skills and abilities, and they focus on that. I think uh probably this within the past decade, people become more well-rounded. They understand that, you know, we're and we're gonna talk about this, I think. Fitness is a is a huge part of how they can become a better athlete at what they do. But an athlete is usually very specific in what their skill set is and what their physicality can do.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

Um so when you think of defining then physical fitness, right? Would you define that in more sort of general, more balanced terms?

SPEAKER_00 26:32

For sure. I mean, you know, physical fitness is a is, you know, your ability to me, physical fitness is your ability to do life without thinking about it. So being able to take the trash out, pick up your laundry, run up the stairs, whatever, bend over, get that, pick up your grandchild, whatever it is, physical fitness is the ability to do that. Good physical fitness is the ability to do that easily.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

When does that on the continuum change, right? When does that change into gen like into more athletic endeavors, would you say?

SPEAKER_00 27:16

I think when someone, you know, let's talk about I'm gonna talk about it in terms of have having a passion for something. So when someone has a passion for a specific thing, um we can, you know, I I worked with a kicker for the Dallas Cowboys for a while. He could not play any other position on that team because he was not an athlete for that for those positions. But for kicking, that's what he did. That's what he focused on. That's what he did with that one leg over and over and over again. So he developed that really specific skill and was very successful at it when he came to train with me. And I think this you in Pilates, we see athletes a lot once something isn't going right or they get injured, and many times that's created by imbalance, and that is one of the beautiful things that Pilates does is if you do it correctly, is restore balance with an athlete. Just uh, you know, for me, I worked very closely with the trainer of the athlete. So, you know, uh especially if you're talking about a professional athlete, they they basically have a team. And uh so when he was sent to me, it was to work on a specific thing, it was to work on his core strength, it's always core strength, right? And mobility. That's what the trainer wanted me to do. Mobility uh around the the hip joint of his kicking leg, but also his non-kicking leg.

SPEAKER_01 29:16

There you are.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

Yes. So that was really fun for me. And that I, you know, that would working with athletes is different usually than working with the general population because they don't have time for BS. If they feel like something's a waste of time, they're not gonna do it. You have to make sure that you're showing them how this is beneficial to them.

SPEAKER_01 29:47

Right. They're their their their health, their well-being, their fitness is their job. It's their livelihood. It's so yeah, there's no there's no time for for sort of the general BS. Uh, I find that interesting, uh, what you just said, that not only when you said mobility of the kicking leg, but also of really the the standing leg, right? Um that when you're working with athletes and there's this um intense focus and certain movements are very much a part of like golfer, for example, a tennis player, a pitcher, uh, you know, uh a goalie, right? There's high specificity in the movements. Um, when you're working with clients like that or athletes with that level of specificity, um where do you see the Pilates slotting in there? Does it create or does it help let me let me see if I can say this a different way without sounding like I'm leading the witness here? Um when you have that level of specificity and their training for that specificity, do you think Pilates comes in to re-establish foundations?

SPEAKER_00 31:04

I well, I I think it can. I look at it as awareness building because the the types of exercises we can give them show very quickly imbalances and deficits. And so once you establish what those are, you can begin to create a program that helps them adjust those. And so it is foundational in a sense, but I think if someone if you if you can get an athlete to stick with it, like I did when I, you know, when I was when I was that kind of athlete, you know, intensely focused on one goal, they will start to see progress. And I think the beauty of Pilates is that you don't need to overthink it. You just need to teach the exercises, right?

SPEAKER_01 32:17

You just need to do it. Yes, yes, yeah, don't overthink it, just teach the exercises, right? There's such value right there in the exercises.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

Yeah. Yep. And yeah, you can find out all the things and you can do the research and all of that kind of stuff. But if you just stick with the exercises, I mean, my first Pilates instructor wasn't a fitness person, he didn't know all of the things I was doing and all of that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 32:43

He was just teaching and yet he made a big difference for you, right?

SPEAKER_00 32:46

A huge difference. And all he did, well, not all, what he did, which I think is so important, was teach me traditional Pilates, really. And you know, that is something that I've been able to come back to over my career and and really, you know, just the basic Pilates. He took me through the Pilates repertoire.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

Do you think we trust the Pilates repertoire enough today?

SPEAKER_00 33:15

I think some people do. I I I think some people do. I think one of the things, and this, you know, I had a Pilates studio in Long Beach, California for 18 years, and I had to remind myself of this, and I had to remind my team of this over and over again. You are going to get bored of the routine you're teaching or the exercises you're teaching right way, way, way before your clients do.

SPEAKER_01 33:45

Right, you'll get bored, but it's always new to them.

SPEAKER_00 33:48

Sure. Yeah, and and there, and as they repeat it, you know, you have to find things that excite you. And as you repeat as that client repeats the workout and the exercises and the small changes or whatever, they're feeling changes and and experiencing changes, not just in the session, but in their in their life.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 34:10

And if you keep that in mind when you go into a session, it helps you, you know, uh the mindset is everything, right?

SPEAKER_01 34:20

So well, uh speaking of mindset, what do you think are some of the habits and the mindsets of an athlete, right? That that we can all take with us into our daily lives.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

So this is something that I teach that that I actually teach in the It Factor, the Pilates It Factor course that I have. And because I absolutely think it's essential to treat your teaching like a pro athlete treats their sport. And one of the things, yeah, it's just it makes so much sense. Actors do it, singers do it, all performers do it, and you are, as a teacher, a performer. And one of the things that you need to do is get your mind set before you walk into that studio, maybe before you leave your house. And you create a ritual. You see, you know, the the like funniest one to think about is what a what a baseball player does when they go up to bat, they're touching things and doing all kinds of stuff. It's a ritual and it's cute and it's you know fun, but at the same time, they're not doing it to be cute or funny, they're doing it because it is telling their brain it is time to perform. And as a teacher, if we do that same thing and we take a moment before just a moment, yeah, and have a ritual that you do that resets your brain. So you leave your baggage at the door, it'll be there when you're done. You can just pick it back up.

SPEAKER_01 36:05

Baggage always shows up in the end, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:07

Yeah, you'd walk into that room with your mind set.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

What's yours? What are you what do you what is yours?

SPEAKER_00 36:13

Ah okay, and I did it before before today, too, because uh it it just works for me. So, first thing is a posture reset for myself. So I will and I've learned how to do this. I had to learn how to do this in a bathroom because I we teach on the road, right? And you're teaching workshops sometimes back to back, and sometimes you only have a minute, you've got just a second, but you can run into the bathroom and you can reset yourself. Now I'm lucky because most pilates, uh, you know, there's mostly women at the events that I'm at, right? So if I go into the men's room, I'm usually the only one there, but I I figured out how to do it even in a stall, if you need to, right, so that I can just get myself set. And the first thing I do is breath. It's reset my vagus nerve. Inhale through the nose, slowly exhale through purse lips, or if I'm totally alone, I will hum. I will, and that vibration helps reset the vagus nerve. So if I'm super nervous, which I always get nervous before any of these things, it just helps me reset. Right, right. Second thing is move my spine in every direction. I do a standing roll down, I do uh side bends, I do standing breaststroke, and I do a little standing twist just so that my spine has been moved, it's awake, I know my posture. I do some shoulder rolls, right? Right, right. Then I take some cold water and I just put it on my face. I just put it on my face and then I dab it off. And if you, you know, if you're wearing makeup or whatever, just take your hand, wet hand, and put it on the back of your neck. Those that's my ritual, that's what I do, right?

SPEAKER_01 38:09

All of which increases awareness, centers you, organizes you, prepares you. And like you said, you're triggering your brain to be like, okay, it's time, it's time to turn on.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

It's time to turn on my teacher mode.

SPEAKER_01 38:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

And you walk through that door and you're there, you're there for them. You're what I tell new teachers is because you're nervous when you're new, or if you're subbing a class for somebody who you know everybody loves and your last minute sub, like all of those situations create stress. If you during your preset, remind yourself that you are there to serve, it's not about you. You're there to give them everything you can to help them.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 39:01

Flip the switch.

SPEAKER_01 39:02

Flip the switch. This is about them, not you. And and I go one step further, trust what you know, and that it'll be there as you need it, right?

SPEAKER_00 39:12

Yeah, don't try to be them, don't apologize for being you, just be you because you're awesome.

SPEAKER_01 39:21

Well, and that's that is it, right? Would you say that is it?

SPEAKER_00 39:26

That is it. Yeah, that is factor. The it factor is to me, it's it's three things. It is that which is presence, which you can't you can teach people how to find it, but you can't teach people what it is for them, because for everybody it's a little bit different. But it's presence, it's understanding your teaching style. And I have five Pilates teacher archetypes that I help people understand what their teaching style is, and then it is your communication skills, which is a combination of how you use your voice and how you use your physicality to connect.

SPEAKER_01 40:16

To connect, right? You're there, you're there for them, and and it's if you're present, would you say then that connection is um is so much easier, so much easier to make.

SPEAKER_00 40:27

So much easier. And then, you know, if you and and you know, at this point, I think everybody's had the experience of watching themselves.

SPEAKER_01 40:35

Where we're doing it right now, yeah. We're actually doing it right now. We're on Zoom watching ourselves as we're interviewing each other.

SPEAKER_00 40:42

Yeah, yeah. That is the greatest teaching tool anyone can have, though. So, you know, this is this is something because I can see myself, right? But one of the I and I don't know if you've had this experience, but for me, the first time I heard myself, yeah, I was astonished. I sounded nothing like I did in my head. Yes, I I agree with that. And you know, it takes a while and sometimes never to get used to the way you sound, the way you know what you're doing with all of your your facial expressions, your gestures, your eyes, all of that stuff. It it but the only way to understand that is to video yourself and watch it back. I've never met one person, and I've taught the the foundations course last year in 25 different cities, so hundreds of people. And every single person was like, I didn't even know I was doing that about something that they were doing.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

Yeah, I I totally I totally can understand that. I still don't necessarily like to watch it back, but I I I totally understand.

SPEAKER_00 41:56

No, it's painful.

SPEAKER_01 41:59

Today's episode is supported by Balanced Body. If you value the roots of the Pilates method and appreciate thoughtful innovation, Balanced Body was made for you. Our equipment honors the intention of the original apparatus while incorporating modern engineering, materials, and manufacturing. The result is intuitive, reliable equipment that gives teachers and movers more ways to explore, progress, and connect with the work. Take a closer look at Pilates.com. So you know, we talk about this in the Pilates space, sort of this, you know, connecting and taking time and building awareness. Would you say this also works in the fitness space? That as you show up as a trainer and a teacher in the fitness space, would you say the same rules apply?

SPEAKER_00 42:53

I think it applies to life. It's every situation. I, in order to put together this program, I had to go outside of the Pilates industry. I went into keynote speaking, um, communication studies, behavioral studies. I had to do all of that in order to understand the power of connection and how connection happens with the things that I talked about and then the science behind it. What's what's actually happening when you connect with someone? Why does it happen sometimes and not other times? What are the variables that you have control over? And which ones don't you have control over? And it's fascinating, it's such a fascinating field, but it really is a life skill. Learning how to communicate well just increases your connection with other people.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

You know, um so that connection right to others also could be inspiring. So how as an instructor does that inspire sort of that inner the inner athlete to come out?

SPEAKER_00 44:15

I think you in yourself or in others?

SPEAKER_01 44:18

In others. As a teacher, when you show up and you're making your suggestions, right? How does that transform into inspiration and their experience?

SPEAKER_00 44:27

I think, you know, I think it's tied into your teaching style. So I, you know, and this also comes from keynote speaking, the the different styles in keynote speaking. I kind of looked at all of that and then I was like, how does this apply to a Pilates teacher? And I came up with five that I think uh cover kind of cover everything. I'm sure there's probably more that I I haven't thought of yet. But I think that has a lot to do with how you're going to inspire the people that you are teaching. So there's, you know, the loudest would be the Pilates entertainer. And you know, you're gonna think of instructors that you know right away that fall, you know, into these different styles, right?

SPEAKER_01 45:10

I don't know anybody.

SPEAKER_00 45:14

But they are, you know, they're get keeping everybody moving. How everyone's having a good time. They usually have a great playlist. They know, they just they are really good at storytelling that ties into what you're doing to help you feel like it. It's just you feel great when you take their class. It's inspiring. You can't wait to go back, and you can't wait to go back to their class, not just to Pilates, but to be in their presence. Then there's the Pilates coach. I love the Pilates coach. The Pilates coach has a goal, they know what the goal of the format is that they're teaching, they know what the goal of the client is, and they help to build the program so that that client is being pushed in the best possible way to do their absolute best. That's a really good coach.

SPEAKER_01 46:09

Right. And a really good coach also builds trust between client and instructor to get to reach those goals.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

Exactly. You when somebody, you know, and this goes into another, another one because they're very much tied together, the motivator, right? The motivator is like the cheerleader. They're the person who's rooting you on, who knows that you can get that one more repetition in, right? That is kind of the person who's gonna make you do more than you thought you could do, right? The coach to me is the person who's gonna make you do it the right way every time, and maybe a little better than you thought you could do it last time.

SPEAKER_01 46:46

Well, you've got to be a little careful with cheerleading, because again, if that's just sort of, you know, if every repetition is good job, good job, good job, then it means nothing.

SPEAKER_00 46:55

Right. And that is though I call those we, you know, filler words. Um that we have filler cues that we use as well as in as teachers, and we'll say those same cues over again and they lose their effectiveness. So with the motivator, there's pitfalls for all of these, by the way. But with the motivator, the pitfall really is right, if you if you're not sincere, if you're just throwing the words out there, but if you're connected with that person and you see that light bulb go off, and you're you know, then that's a true motivator, right? Where you're like, I you did it, you know, and you really mean it and you really feel it. You're there, you're present with you're present, right, right, right. Then the educator. The educator knows that exercise inside out and backward. They know the why behind that exercise, and they are able to explain that exercise so simply to somebody who doesn't know Pilates speak that they can understand it. The Pilates Educator, I I love this quote from uh Einstein. If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Agreed. And that's when the Pilates educator is really at their best, right? Um, when they can help no matter who it is coming in, the athlete or the senior who is just coming back from a hip replacement, they can help them understand what the exercise is and what the movement is supposed to be and why it's important. That's really a really, really good educator. And the final one is the pal, the Pilates pal. And I think this one is the underrated one. That's the person who makes everybody in the room feel special, feel welcome.

SPEAKER_01 48:49

Well, would you say the the the the the key the the keys are to know when to slide into all these different personalities?

SPEAKER_00 48:58

That is when you have the true if factor, when you your class is going to be a a bit of all of it, and you know the right moment for the coach, you know the right moment for the pal, you know when the energy's lagging, bring in the entertainer, you know what what to do and where to put it, and every class is different, right? So you have in your brain, you know, that this is how I think about you know your teaching approach, the kind of how you teach this stuff is so so the presence, all of that stuff to me is the why. Your communication skills are the how. And the Pilates itself is the what. Is the what. So if you can tie all of those things together, you're giving somebody an experience, not just a class.

SPEAKER_01 49:55

So that let's let's take that. Now let's stretch that back into this idea of of where we are now with group group performer classes, right? Yeah. Um, so so those are those are skills. Those are some serious skills that you're talking about. Of course, there's knowing the baseline Pilates, and then there's knowing how to bring it into fitness. Um, and there's fitness-focused now Pilates classes. Uh let's let's first talk about sort of thoughts on fitness-focused Pilates classes. Like let's let's take a step for one second from the instructor and just look at the content. What are your thoughts on what you're seeing as an influx of the fitness-focused Pilates classes?

SPEAKER_00 50:38

So I I think you know, everything ultimately comes down to the to the individual teacher. Do you know what you don't know? It's really important. If you're going to teach this, say you're gonna teach a fitness Pilates kind of mix class. In order to do that, and it took me, I would say, a decade to even feel at all comfortable doing this. I was teaching Pilates and I was teaching fitness. And they did not come together in my classes. I taught them separately. It was only after I understood the two well enough that I felt comfortable saying, okay, let's do this in the Pilates world, if you will, and then let's bring a little of this of the fitness world in because that makes sense for the format of my class, whether it's a group class or for the goal of the client if it's an individual client. And that took a while. So for me, I'm fine with whatever it is that you think is going to help people and be good for your business. Because those are the those are the bottom lines, right? Are you helping people?

SPEAKER_01 52:13

Are you serving? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:15

Is it good for your business? Yeah. If you don't understand what you're teaching well enough, you're not gonna be good for either. So if you're going to teach a Pilates fitness, whatever, know Pilates, know it, get certified, do what you need to do. And you know, I love the idea of certification. I obviously I was on the board of the MPCP of National Pilates certification program. And it's crucial that people not just get trained, but that they actually take a test, and that that test is developed by leaders in the industry. It's not just you know put together by anybody, it's leaders in the industry.

SPEAKER_01 53:00

It's baseline accountability, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:01

Yeah, it's baseline. So, you know, do that before you're going to walk into a room and tell people you know what you're talking about. Know that you know what you're talking about. Take the test. So I think that's number one. Know Pilates well enough to at least pass the baseline certification exam. Then know whatever fitness modality it is that you're incorporating in. That could be strength. Know what strength comes from. There are so many courses that you can take. Everything's online right now, right? You can find that information so that you understand strength comes from this. So I need to be able to do this in order to gain strength or for my clients to gain strength. And Pilates does this, and I need to know what that is and the limitations of it, and the limitations of traditional strength training. You need to understand what those things are before you can think about putting them together.

SPEAKER_01 54:04

Well, so what do you think about all of these spaces that are popping up where the information is scripted? Um, and and trainers are coming in with you know, relying on scripted material. Um, and if you think about that in context of what we were talking about with the it factor, how do you create more confidence and and while also getting the information, you know, learning what you don't know.

SPEAKER_00 54:35

Um yeah, I well so it's a big question.

SPEAKER_01 54:39

It's uh I don't have an answer, you know.

SPEAKER_00 54:41

I I think well, I think it is a huge question. And I also think it it, you know, with the scripted, it's interesting, right? Because if you look at Pilates, it's pretty much scripted. You do this and then you do this, and then you do this, and then when you're adding other equipment, but there is also a method to it. There is a you do this, and then we're gonna move on to this, and then you're so whatever, whatever training program you did, they teach you a system, they teach you a program. Now it's not as scripted as some of the things that I've seen out there. I think it comes down to education, right? If you're going to start, you know, if you're gonna, this is for the people wanting to make money off this, the big business leaders out there. If you're going to tell people they have to teach a certain thing in a certain way, educate them on why.

SPEAKER_01 55:36

There you are.

SPEAKER_00 55:37

Yep. Make sure that they understand the why behind the method, the why behind each exercise, why it's in that order, what happens if you change it, so that you know, we all know that things happen in the class. I always write out my workout. I never do the workout the way it's written because things happen.

SPEAKER_01 56:01

It doesn't happen that once you start the yeah, I I've always I always marvel at scripted workouts because I do the same thing. I'm like, okay, this is what we're gonna do. And then you see something, you notice something, and you're like, hmm.

SPEAKER_00 56:13

Yeah. I teach online, I teach on camera, and I write all my workout, and I've done thousands of them at this point, and I'm still going, you know, the my my uh videographer who runs the teleprompter, the tell I can see him like going back and forth, like, where the heck is he on this sheet? Because in the moment I'm thinking, you know what? That next exercise doesn't work the way I thought it was going to. I need to pivot. So, you know, it you have to have the knowledge and the understanding. And you know, some of this just comes with experience. A lot of it comes with experience, but you know, so so be gentle on yourself if you're if you're a newer instructor and you're like, I don't know what they're talking about. You will, as soon as soon as you start teaching multiple classes, you will.

SPEAKER_01 57:02

Therein lies the beauty of a script, isn't it? Yeah, it gives you an opportunity to show up in a space, right? And to be safe and to experiment, um uh, and then to grow into your teaching experience. I think today's world is a little bit back, like it's different than when we learned, John. Like we we we learned, and then everybody was so concerned because it was so much information, like, well, how do we teach it? And then we had to define our teaching. Today there's a definition of teaching, right? There's parameters, there's personality of classes and expectations of a facility. And then you learn to grow into your, you know, you learn everything that's behind it in a way.

SPEAKER_00 57:49

Yeah. Yeah. In one sense, when somebody does that for you, if you take advantage of it, you have an opportunity to focus more on the client and watch how they're moving with the particular exercise or what they seem to be good at or not. And then that that helps you kind of layer, and that's what teaching becomes, right? You're just layering knowledge for yourself as you're teaching your clients. You're you're if you're making it a two-way street, which communication is a two-way street. So as you give out that great information, no matter what style you're teaching, you want to see how it lands. That's how you know if you need to shift into a different teaching style, but it's also how you know whether you need to shift into a different exercise or a different program, even.

SPEAKER_01 58:41

So if I if I kind of keep cycling back to this idea of fitness and Pilates and fitness, right? What you're saying is so much comes down to the teacher, how the teacher shows up, the teacher, what the teacher is is not only teaching, but how they're connecting. Um and and that Pilates itself is enough, right? Like there's sort of this concept that that Pilates should show up in fitness and Pilates is enough. Um flipping that around in terms of fitness, right? What do you think is one sort of misconception on the Pilates side that Pilates has of fitness? And what do you think is a misconception fitness has of Pilates?

SPEAKER_00 59:23

Wow. Okay, so you know, fitness is such a large term.

SPEAKER_01 59:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 59:31

Yeah, it's it's giant.

SPEAKER_01 59:32

So let's say strength, strength training?

SPEAKER_00 59:35

Strength training, okay, yeah. Um I you know, man, even so when I uh so I started thinking about strength training, and I'm like, okay, so are we talking power or are we talking endurance? Are we talking like what kind of strength are you looking for? Are you just looking for aesthetics? Um, I think one of the misconceptions of strength training of of fitness is that um it is the only way to gain strength. The research and the way that that you know if you if you look at like NASM or though uh even Ace, the how they prescribe strength training, how they teach you how to uh incorporate strength training into someone's program, there are rules. And the rules are based on research of the most efficient and the most effective way to gain strength.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:41

In muscle groups.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:42

In muscle groups, right, yes. And probably bone as well, because it's all it's all, you know, most of that is based on on uh incremental increases, blah, blah, blah. I I think that, yes, it's efficient, it's a great way, we know it works, blah, blah, blah. But I think the perception is that's the only way that you can gain strength. And I I don't agree with that. I think that you can gain strength in doing Pilates, you can gain strength doing whatever sport you're doing or whatever whatever you're doing. It might there might be limitations to it. Obviously, there's going to be limitations to every kind of uh strength training. So I think there's limitations to it, but I also think that you also have to think about what someone enjoys doing. And if someone absolutely hates lifting weights, you can tell them this is the best thing for them all you want. But if they're not doing it or they're they're hating it while they're doing it, they're not getting the best out of that 45 minutes hour, whatever it is. If they love doing Pilates, and Pilates is gonna help them build strength, but it's gonna take some time and it's gonna take an instructor that understands okay, we need to change the the resistance that you're using over time. We, you know, we need progressive overload, whatever, whatever the right that person's understanding of strength is, that's gonna have a better outcome, isn't it? Because we're gonna do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:20

If someone's gonna come to you two and three times a week as opposed to not doing anything, start and stop and start and stop doing it, doing it the first two weeks of January and then not again until the next two week. That's right, because they're super sore, and every time they try to go to the restroom, their quads are burning and they decide they're never doing that again.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:38

And they hate going to the gym with all those blah blah blah, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:42

Yeah, whatever the story, whatever the story is, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:46

Yeah.

unknown 1:02:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:47

So I think that's a misconception on uh about to me about strength training. We'll we'll say it's strength training. The misconception that I think fitness people might have of Pilates. Oh gosh, how many, how much time do we have? Um, but I think you know, to me, the misconception is that it's only focused on the core, or it's only focused on mobility, or it's only focused. And Pilates, the Pilates method is really multi-focused. And I, you know, uh, we were talking about this before. That combination to me, the beauty of Pilates is the movement of the spine that you get, the combination of mobility and stability and how they work together, even though they're working against each other, right? And uh that system and the beauty of awareness that's built with clients. And I think that's the misconception, is that they I don't think the fitness world understands how much body awareness you get through Pilates practice because you are really moving everywhere possible in every in every direction as you right.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:14

You're really varying the forces, the way the forces are moving through the body and the way the body has to adapt.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:20

Yeah, you get this wonderful internal idea of how your body works, and you don't have to know the muscles or the joints or anything. I mean, it's great if you start to learn that stuff, but it's just that freedom of movement, and I it's just such a beautiful art form.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:42

What do you what would you say the limitations? Because I I I I do think, you know, I also came from a strength training background. And I I do believe, first of all, I agree with you 100%. The most important thing is the client is doing it. Uh, I do believe that in the Pilates environment, there are lovely opportunities for fitness applications. Um, and sometimes I will act actively say, okay, we are stepping outside my little the little Pilates bubble right now, and we're going to utilize the tool that is the reformer for fitness or for strength training. Um, but what would you say some of the limitations you see in terms of building strength in the Pilates environment?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:23

So the the biggest thing with strength is progressive overload. And it is really, really hard to measure that in the Pilates environment. You know, you can you go from reformer to reformer. Springs are variable, right? It's variable from spring to spring, it's variable from length to length. And so it's very difficult to consistently have progressive overload. It's you know, you really have to you really have to be creative to use that machine for uh more. Traditional strength training exercises. It doesn't, it's you know, it wasn't built for that. Although I've done many things on there that are, you know, traditional, more traditional strength training. But there's a moving carriage. You know, you're giving carriage, variable resistance.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:18

Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:19

And you know, there are, I know there's a lot of variations where, you know, you're stepping to the side of the report. There's there's lots of things that you can do. Um, and if that's the piece of equipment you have and you want to help someone with strength training, um, and you know, you don't have room or you don't have the the economics to add actual weights, dumbbells, whatever, then yeah, figure out ways to do it. Um, but I I think you know, and I'm I'm sticking with reformer here because I think, you know, you have when you add in the other pieces of equipment, you have other opportunities, right? You you've got you've got more uh more opportunity to add similar exercises that you have in strength in traditional strength training when you start to add the spring wall or the tower or the chair or whatever it is. But with reformer, I I think it can can just be fun, right? I I think I think you know one of the reasons why people love reformer classes is community. I think that's a big one. That's huge. Yeah, you have your own community, yeah. Yeah, but you're in a community, yes. Um you typically you're with an instructor that you love for you know whatever their style is or whatever, you're usually you're you usually if you're in that class, you're doing it because you love that instructor. And that drives membership and uh adherence.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:50

Retains and retains clientele. More than more than the more than the method, more than the and I think therein lies I uh the big the big the big conversation around the value add of putting these group performer classes together. It's not really the the fitness versus Pilates, it's not one or the other, it's the community, it's the awareness, it's the connection, it's all this stuff you were talking about with the it factor, the client all experiences, um, which is gonna benefit whatever facility it's in.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:32

Yeah, our job is to move people. That's right. Two ways to get them physically moving and to move them emotionally. Yes, that's our job, and that is something that group reformer can do really well. Now, not everybody likes group classes, some people want that one-on-one attention, and some teachers do not like teaching group classes, they want to teach one-on-one. I believe there is plenty of room for everyone, and there's plenty of fitness in the Pilates, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:10

And and now there's really this nice Pilates in the fitness space that's happening as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:16

I I do believe it's our uh responsibility to educate people, and part of that is through naming something what it is. If it's truly reformer fitness and not Pilates, don't call it Pilates, call it reformer fitness or whatever name you come up with. If it's if you're going to teach Pilates reformer classes, and they're very much just Pilates, and you're not really going into the fitness world, call it that. And then people will learn. You know, we we need to educate people on what it is. This, you know, I think for the longest time we we have had issues with our branding since day one, right? You remember long lean muscles. Let's come do Pilates and get long lean muscles. I mean, you know, some people are still advertising that. And, you know, the fit that the fitness people laughed at us, right? They're like long lean muscles, you know, it's like that's not how muscle works, you know. But you see back in the day, these beautiful dancers doing these exercises, and you know, that's that's marketing 101, right? Everyone's like, I want to look like that, I'm gonna do what they're doing. So um, I think we need to, you know, make sure that we are being honest with what we are providing and clear. And I think as a business, you're going to do much better if you do that. You're going to have much better attention because you're going to be attracting people who are looking for what you are offering and what you're saying you're offering.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:58

I think that's powerful. And and um I actually think that that's a really lovely conversation to have with the decision makers and the fitness facilities. Like, be clear what it is we're offering our members and why it has value that is unique so that it becomes uh uh something that's added to support the day-to-day fitness desires.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:26

Is that kind of what you're saying? Yeah, you know, truth and marketing, it's it's really important. And I know Pilates is a sexy word. You want to call everything Pilates because right now it's hot, and that's what you know, it's not bad like back in the early 2000s when we were like it's P-I-L-A-T-E-S, and it's pronounced Pilates.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:47

Pilates, not pilots, yeah, yeah. Um, do you know that like so the email for Bounds Body is joy at Pilates.com. I used to have to spell Pilates all the time, P-I-L-A-T-E-S. Now I have to spell Joy. It's J-O-Y, it's not an I. And everybody else gets the Pilates, right? Um so before I get into rapid fire questions, uh, there's just something that I've been wanting to say to you. You, sir, have been the leader and the instigator in all manner of positive ways of online education. You were you were doing online work um and and teaching instructors and offering um your virtual classes for a really long time. Um so thank you, by the way, for um and and uh in in in many ways, the idea of group work and fitness on the reformer, a lot of your work is very athletic. It's very the there's a lot of physicality, which is really just lovely. Um I'm gonna just ask you, like, what the heck were you thinking back then? Because you you led the industry, nobody said it could be done, and you did it. Uh so what the heck were you thinking? And when you bring the physicality to the Pilates, like where is your mind at that in that moment? Is it is it like I know that sounds like a silly question. Is it in the Pilates? Is it in the physicality? Is it in both? Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:17

So we, you know, I I started my studio in 2001 and it was uh John Gary Pilates. And then I only taught Pilates. I kind of left fitness on the side because that's all I had time for, right? I was still doing fitness myself, but I wasn't teaching it. And then about 2006, I really missed teaching. We already had group reformer classes. I had those from like 2001. We we started with that. We I mean, we really we were, you know, one of the first we're pushing it.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:54

You were pushing it back then.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:56

It's my fault. This is all my fault.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:01

Okay, the mail goes to John Gary Pilates.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:04

But in 2006, we expanded our studio and we added a group fitness room, and I started teaching strength classes in there, and I started teaching, you know, cardio classes. Um, and I loved doing the two. And I and but there were people who would only do the fitness classes, and there were people who would only do the Pilates, and then there were some people who would do both. And so I wanted to make the people who were doing just Pilates comfortable to go in and do fitness. So I just uh started adding some fitness stuff in my reformer class. This was back in 2006, and I called it Athletic Reformer. And then I created some content, uh, some workshops, and I was asked to um video them and uh put them on video. So I did about 30 um 30 videos in six days back in the day, it was one day, guard you. Yeah, but it was, you know, back in the day, it was it was one, it was, you know, you would have one workout that you would do over and over and over again. You know, you wear out that that VHS tape, or at the time, CD, uh DVDs. Um and when I got on camera to teach, I never wanted to turn back. I loved everything about it, and it was this humongous production. There were lighting people and camera people, there was a teleprompter person and somebody reading the notes, making sure I wasn't saying anything I shouldn't be saying, and a director, and I I was in heaven. I think it was like a childhood fantasy that I was gonna be an actor or something like that, or a performer somehow. And I was able to do it again a few years later, and the director said, You should be doing this. This is you're you know, you're really natural at this and you really enjoy it. You should find a way to do it. And so in 2015, you know, YouTube had really just started a few years earlier. Uh, I we started um what was John Gary TV, and um yeah, I just loved the idea of combining three things fitness, Lottis, and being on camera. I I loved the idea of that. And I had just finished a world tour, and you know, you you know what it's like traveling and traveling and traveling, and I'd go to these places and people would be like, come back next year or come back next year. I know, but it's so tempting to be like, yes, I know, but did but you that's impossible, right? And I thought this is a really good way for me to reach people around the world, and you know, you could and so we started our platform, and it just um, you know, it it did really well right from the beginning. We have a lot of international people, um, and then just people in in states that I didn't get to go to, you know, it was just a fun way to connect with people on camera, and so that's how we started it.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:25

Right. And and you were really clear in the very beginning that this is athletic reformer, right? So it's sort of you were you were modeling from the beginning, sort of how to bring fitness applications or fitness into the Pilates like environment, but calling it what it is, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:42

And then I would do fundamental Pilates where it was just so it's I really do believe it's about making sure you're naming something for what it is, right? It it is really important that that you do that, and and I think that it's it makes it clear for people, they understand it. And you know, I really didn't, and you know, unless I'm missing it, I didn't get pushback uh because I'm really clear about what it is I'm doing and the benefits of it. And you know, I I am passionate about Pilates, really passionate about it, but I love other things too, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:21

Well, and and regardless of of how you uh communicated it, in both instances, you create can you've created community and connection, right? So it comes back again to the teacher, right? And that it factor with the teacher, yeah. So three things, I love that. Three things Pilates, fitness, and and that sort of performative element, or or really we just substitute that for the teacher.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:46

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's that it's my my favorite part, whether whether it's on camera or in person, really my favorite part is moving people, and it's harder on camera because there isn't someone in front of you. You have to wait for the feedback.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:05

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:06

Uh, and that's that's a different, you know, that's not everybody likes that, but I am teaching the so my mindset when I'm teaching on camera is teaching to my absolute favorite clients. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:20

See, I I I just yesterday spoke with Kira Sloan from Pilates Anytime, and she said, the love comes through the pixels. Yes, yeah, it does.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:29

Yeah, it does. And I have to say, you know, Pilates Anytime was a few just a couple of years before me. They started before me, and I got had the opportunity to work with them. They were they and they always have been fabulous. And I love finding that in this industry. I do think we should be supporting each other and lifting each other up and not tearing each other down. If you've got something to say, say it privately. And you know, it yeah. And, you know, for those who are doing who are in this space and doing things that are unique or doing things that you really care about, I, you know, try not to read the comments. Try not to read the comments. I love, I can't, I can't remind just a performer was just talking about this, an actor was just talking about, you know, how they deal with um how they deal with the comments. And what they said was, if that person doesn't can't text me, they don't matter. So the people you should care about are the people that you know, the people that are close to you. Otherwise, just let it go.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:42

Right, right. Well, we're all we're all much stronger collaborating together and tackling these big questions, right? Like this is this right now, this was a this is a big conversation. Pilates in the fitness space and fitness, you know, in the Pilates space. And and where does one begin? Where does the other sort of, you know, support when does one come forward and the other support? And vice versa, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:21:07

And I I think, you know, um for me, it comes down to first of all, you know, I teach mainly on camera now. So I think about what my goal is for a workout, and then I know which direction I'm gonna go. Am I gonna go mainly Pilates or am I gonna go mainly fitness for this? If you are teaching in person, which most people do, you you work with your, you know, whatever the format of the group class is. But if you're able to work privately, if you have that luxury of working privately with the person, you what are their needs? What are their goals and what are their needs? And then you figure out what is best for them if you have the tools, if you've got the fitness tools and the Pilates tools. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:58

Fantastic. What a good conversation and a perfect timing for it too. All right, rapid fire questions, and this is where you get to give the answer. Here it is. What is your definition of Pilates?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:12

I believe the Pilates is so unique in that it has that both mobility and stability kind of push and pull, and specifically movement of the spine in all directions, which is so unique and so valuable and so important.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:37

Okay, I agree, but rapid fire, for the sake of rapid fire, I'm gonna go on. Uh what's your favorite piece of Pilates equipment? Can be big or small, and why?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:51

Okay, so of course I love them all, right? They're like kids. You love them all.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:57

They all get equal gifts on the holidays, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:59

And on certain days, you love one more than another.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:03

I have to say the thing I go to in my studio the most with the most joy is the ladder barrel.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:15

Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:17

I love the mobility. I I just need, you know, with with what we do, you need to stretch. And I love that thing for all of the different ways that you can stretch on it. And it's just like, you know, one of the best things to do on it is just hang. You just lay over that barrel and decompress your spine. It feels so good. It's yeah, it's I love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:41

All right. I won't disagree with you. Uh, what's one misunderstanding about either Pilates or your profession that you wish more people understood?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:55

I think that Pilates can do it all. Nothing can do it all. I think it has to, you have to combine it with other things. But if it's the only thing you're gonna do, it's fine. If that's the only thing you love to do and you hate all other forms of fitness, do it because you're moving and you're taking care of yourself.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:20

Fantastic. All right, what's one habit that you do regularly that complements your Pilates practice?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:26

Okay, it drives my partner Mike crazy, but I go to bed at eight eight p.m.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:31

Oh God, that sounds like heaven. It drives him crazy. He's just getting off the phone and stopping work.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:39

We'll be watching something, you know. Usually at that time of night, we're winding down, we're watching something, and I'll be like, oh, eight o'clock, I gotta do.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:46

Oh, that's that's great. That's great. Um, do you have any books or podcasts you would recommend?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:54

Oh wow. Okay, so uh Robert Sapolsky. Have you heard of Robert Sapolsky? No, no, no. He is so amazing. He wrote a book called Behave.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:08

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:09

And he also um did it's like 25 uh lecture series. He was a Stanford professor on human behavior science. It is fascinating. So talk about why it's really about why we do the things we do. And he took in his book, he takes an incident and then he talks about what happened to that person, what's going on in that person in the moment, what happened a few seconds before, what happened maybe days before, and then what's in our DNA for behavior. And it is so fascinating. And to me, the tie-in for teaching is you can do all of the things that you do, but it communication is a two-way street, and you need to understand what that where that person is in order to maybe adjust what you're doing, or just understand that it's not it's not you sometimes, it's just where that person is at that moment or what happened to them long ago. It's so fascinating. And that first lecture, the the lecture series, I had to look up a lot of words. I kept pause, pause, pause. But that first lecture that he does, and he is uh he's got his own unique presentation style, is it will just grab you, and you're gonna want to do the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:45

Okay, fantastic. I'm I'm gonna do that this weekend.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:48

That's gonna be Oh, I can't wait. You gotta tell me. You gotta tell me what how it goes.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:51

Um hey, hey, John, before we end today, where can our listeners find you?

SPEAKER_00 1:26:57

I am uh in a couple of places, but you can find me on Pilates and Fitness TV. That's our online um uh class uh service that we have. And you can also find me at Pilatesgradschool.com and of course Pilates ItFactor.com.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:17

Great, great, fantastic. Are you still on tour with the ItFactor?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:22

Uh so right now I'm starting a book club, actually. So uh we're we're gonna each there's nine modules in the book, and it's gonna be eight weeks. We're essentially gonna cover a module each week, and that that book club is online. It's gonna be super fun. It's is the book out? Is the the book is out, yeah. The book came out. You guys are carrying it, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:43

Oh, fantastic! All right, well, that's gonna be my other read for this weekend. Hello, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:47

Oh, good, good, yeah. And the book club, I think uh will starts after this airs. It's um it's June 17th, and it's every Wednesday. Of course, the replays will be available, but it's a really good way to take the information from the book and actually apply it. So you don't just learn it, you actually are using the information. So I'm excited about that.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:08

Uh that's great. That's great. Uh um, John, it's really always so lovely to spend time with you. I cannot thank you enough for having this conversation today. Uh I I think it's timely, I think it's important, but it's it's also so interesting to me that it's a space that you've been living in for a long time. I think we just all caught up to you.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:29

Uh well, thank you very much. I really appreciate it. And I'm so I I am so excited to hear that we have our same, we have like the same introduction to our professional lives through higher education. It's so amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:43

Yeah, that was really and in New York City, how wild.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:46

In New York City, the best city in the world. The best.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:49

Uh all right, John. I want to thank you so much. Thank you for joining us and for all of you out there for listening. Uh, this is Pilates Perspectives. Again, I'm Joy Paleo. Uh, so grateful for all of you today.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:00

Thank you.